Lori Fahidi Cohen - The Soft Skills and Entrepreneurship

Founder's Voyage · Sep 05, 2024

Transcript

SPEAKER_03

00:00:00

I love the idea of a problem opportunity, I think is how it's phrased. And I love that because it's just a great way to look at challenges. is.

SPEAKER_01

00:00:29

Our

SPEAKER_01

00:00:29

featured speaker today is an experienced teacher and the head of drama at Tenenbaum Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto, who is passionately committed to high -quality arts education. Laurie, it's a great pleasure to have you as our featured guest today. Thank you so much for coming on and being willing to share your journey with us.

SPEAKER_03

00:00:49

It's my absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me. I was

SPEAKER_01

00:00:54

wondering if you might, you can kind of take this where you want to go, but I was I was wondering if you might start us with some of your early experience growing up and maybe share if there were some early life events or people that came into your life that you feel really had influence in the direction that you took.

SPEAKER_03

00:01:15

Sure, happy to.

SPEAKER_03

00:01:16

So growing up, my mom was a teacher and also an amateur actress. So I think that really did shape me. I saw her, you know, working so hard. She was getting a degree while, you know, there were four kids running around the house. And at the same time, as an outlet, she would go and be a part of this theater, very thriving theater community in Montreal. It was an amateur theater company, but they were very, very serious about what they were doing. And so I would see her, you know, involved in the arts and I think that really did shape me and also music. She played the piano, she played the accordion, my dad played the guitar, so we always would laugh.

SPEAKER_03

00:02:12

We a little bit like, you know, the Partridge family, that's a bit of a dated reference, but we would, you know, we would be around the piano, we would be singing and there was a lot of music in my house. And so I think that shaped me very much and I think it also shaped me in terms of understanding the importance of having outlets, creative outlets. So I always did have that growing up. And so just in terms of, you know, arts education, also, she taught at a number of different schools and I would sort of, it was the Pied Piper, I would kind of follow her. I would follow her along wherever she would go, I would go.

SPEAKER_03

00:02:51

So I had the experience of being at different schools as well and seeing different schools and different learning experiences. I also had to adapt. So that was something that I learned also quite young. Unfortunately, my mom also passed away when I was quite young. So that was something as well that, you know, really had to learn to deal with to navigate challenge when I was very young. But I think that the importance of education stayed with all of us in our family. And we I also grew up with a brother with special needs. So I'm sure you can imagine what our household was like. It was, you know, very, very warm and very loving, but very, very chaotic. You know, so my parents were trying to juggle everything. And for me as the youngest, I was just kind of watching it all and seeing what was going on around me. But I think that I have a very, I think it's a twofold thing. I think I have an appreciation of the importance of arts education and how much, how important it is. And, you know, cognitively, I mean, I'm not a scientist, so I won't dare get into, you know, science,

SPEAKER_03

00:04:05

but I will say that I know that, you know, the little that I know, cognitively, it is, it's very important for the brain. So that is something that I really can appreciate. I also developed, I mean, the real gift that my brother gave me was that I have very much an appreciation of people with, you know, who are not neurotypical, who are, we're all diverse, of course, you know, and I have an older sister who as well specializes. She teaches teachers at McGill University and her focus specifically as, you know, um uh you know teaching individualized teaching and uh exceptionalities uh but the truth is we have a center for differentiated learning at my school which i think is excellent but she has said to me that really we all need differentiated education so maybe perhaps that's a misnomer but i i you know i think it's an excellent center um and i'm in awe of the staff that work there and work so hard to give every student at our school what they need um so that That a long and rambling answer, but I hope that that gives you a sense of, you know, where I'm coming from. And interestingly, I really could get into this later, but I kind of went into education kicking and screaming. So it wasn't really my first choice. So interestingly, I always see it a little bit as an outsider too. And I have a lot of other streams of interest along with education.

SPEAKER_04

00:05:30

That's excellent. I think it is one of the tragedies of our time that there's so much less importance put on creative expression and creative output and having, as you said, those creative outlets than I think there should be. I think there should be a lot more importance put on it.

SPEAKER_04

00:05:52

I'd love to hear a bit more about what you said about getting into education, kicking and screaming and how your view on it has changed over the years.

SPEAKER_03

00:06:02

Sure. Yeah. So you know I was right out of school. I film production and I really really wanted to make movies. That was my main focus and I was working in a little production company in a part of town that was not a fancy part of town. My dad was a bit horrified. He was like what's going on. And, you know, I really, you know, I was doing the working on the administrative side of things. And he really, you know, he said to me at one point, and I can, I can very much understand, I mean, first of all, he joked that he worked so hard, you know, the immigrant story, he worked so hard to get out of these neighborhoods. Why are you going back? But it happens in every town that these neighborhoods become gentrified eventually, right? And, you know, and then kids and teens want to go back and hang out there. It's like the trendy neighborhood. But I was working in a neighborhood that, you know, was not one of these gentrified neighborhoods. And he sort of said to me, well, why don't you get a degree in education? Just the old fall back on, right? Because I think, you know, again, coming from his generation, which is, you know, World War and post World War, I think he really was worried

SPEAKER_03

00:07:20

about his kids being able to you know make a living and I can very much understand that. So so he really kind of nudged me in that direction. So I you know decided okay I applied to a few places and I got into University of Toronto and again I was thinking no I'm gonna go to McGill I'm gonna go to and he was like nudging me and so you know anyone who who knows me in like the first years of, whether it was studying education or it was my job, early days, I have a good friend who started at my workplace with me. And I was very much, oh, I'm just doing this temporarily, you know. And, you know, I always joke that this is my waitering, you some actors wait tables. So I'm teaching on the side, that's what I'm doing. So, but I always continue to write. And I always continue to make films and make videos. So luckily, I haven't lost that but I really sort of sounds weird because I've been doing it for a long time but I feel like I sort of approach teaching a little bit differently. It's sort of, I kind of joke that I'm, the focus is on the arts and the teaching comes second but really as time has gone by that's kind of changed but what hasn't gotten lost is you know the importance. I see so much, I also teach social science and in social science, I teach a lot about transferable skills. And, you know, I think that they are getting lost. I can see that, you know, I think it started during the pandemic and post pandemic. Unfortunately, students understandably lost part of the ability to connect with one another. And you know, as I talk about this all the time in the social science courses, that technology is going to be doing more things and we can work with it hand in hand which is wonderful but what the strength that we have are our interpersonal skills, our cognitive flexibility, our leadership skills and I think that problem solving you know all of those skills and I think that we need those even more in order to be effective. I mean I know they're calling it It's the fourth industrial revolution now with technology.

SPEAKER_03

00:09:43

And I think that unfortunately after COVID, I mean, one example I always give and it's not the student's fault, but I will say, and my sister, who's a professor says the same thing that sometimes if we say to students, okay, we've divided you into groups and now here's some work that we'd like you to do. They will sit separately on a Google Doc. And I will always say to them, I want you to look at each other in the eye. I want you to talk to each other. You can get it in other disciplines, of course. But, you know, in the arts, whether you're playing music together, whether you are performing together, you have to coordinate, you have to problem solve. You have to talk to each other. You have to understand the way each person learns. And I mean, I always you know, it's not perfect in every group that I teach, but I always say that to them.

SPEAKER_03

00:10:31

You have to make decisions by consensus. And I think that unfortunately that got lost over the pandemic, and I think that it's coming back, but a great way for it to come back is through the arts.

SPEAKER_01

00:10:44

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you so much for, you know, kind of taking us through to a little bit of what, you know, the pandemic was like for you and what you saw about that social shift. I think we all experience that on a different level, but I really did worry most about kids and about the impact that was having on education, and you're kind of leading me into a question I wanted to ask you about sort of the evolution of education. So as such an experienced educator, what are the biggest evolutions you feel like you've seen not just in teaching, but in how students learn? Like, do you feel that, you know, I mean, not pandemic aside, but I feel like that's one of the environmental factors. Do you feel like current day students learn differently than those maybe of just five or 10 years ago due to the evolution of like environmental or other lifestyle factors? And what do you think some of those differences are?

SPEAKER_03

00:11:46

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I have seen a huge evolution and you know, I mean, I teach at a school where students live in subjects. So they learn, you know, they're going into one class and they're learning a language and then they're going into another class and you know, it's chemistry. And then, so I mean, they, I have great respect for them because it's a tough day. you know they they have to keep uh switching gears um and so i think that uh for us we had quad masters and then we had semesters and now we're back to no semesters so they have 11 courses all year long and it is very challenging i think it's good for them in many regards in that you know it's very very you know the the bar is high it's rigorous for sure but one thing that I think I'm reading a really interesting book called Stolen Focus and I think it is very very true and very relevant to right now because one of my biggest worries you know people were talking about chat GPT and that's a whole other topic that I'm happy to talk about. But I think the bigger concern is focus. And it is my worry, I don't think it's only students. I think, you know, I mean, we all know that our eyeballs are monetized now, you know, and clicks and likes and, you know, all of that. And there's so many good things about that, the way in which we can build communities and for social activism and social causes. I think it's excellent. But I do worry that attention, the ability to sustain attention, the ability to think critically. And I teach a history course. And what I did with the students for their independent study assignment was they had to read a book. And I was saying, you know, scrolling and reading is great, but there's still great value in reading an actual book, in my opinion, because again, your brain works differently when you're reading. You have to slow down. You have to interact with the text. You have to meet it halfway. You have to go deeper.

SPEAKER_03

00:14:11

And so we would actually sit in the library, sort of like what elementary students do, you know, reading time. But I did that because I really wanted them to slow down. And I do worry that the ability to slow down and to interact with text and to think critically, deep thinking, I do worry. And I do think that we don't, when we multitask, we we're really multitasking. We're sort of, in my humble opinion, we're doing everything, when we're doing five things, I think everything is being done in a mediocre fashion. And so I really do. And I think, you so I start every class and you know, my students use their phones all the time. They just did, I was telling Spencer beforehand

SPEAKER_03

00:14:59

that they just did radio plays and they were using their phones to find sound effects and do all kinds of cool things with their phones. So technology is incredible, but I do think that, I do worry about how it is impacting students' brains, the constant, constant, you know, scrolling and clicking, and I just see, you know, I'm looking over their shoulder and I'm seeing how quickly they're clicking from one thing to the next, and there's probably some good about that, but there are, I think, some deficits, unfortunately. Um, so that's one thing that I think is very much, um, has, has changed, uh, is, is, you know, and it's not that it's completely eroded, but I think it's something that, um, we have to, I think it's something that we really have to work on, um, and, and, and continue to build in students.

SPEAKER_04

00:15:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the, the aspect of continually scrolling and when you see something you don't like, you can immediately dismiss it. Makes it hard for people to get comfortable sitting in things that are uncomfortable. Like there's lots of things in the arts that are beautiful, but they are, you know, emotionally to some degree stressing or uncomfortable or difficult. And I've heard about books that were important to literature being banned because they're not nice topics to talk about. But it's so important for us to be able to deal with being a part of understanding and sitting in those uncomfortable topics, at least I think. I'd love to understand from your perspective, assuming there's like, you know, as you said, technology is great in some ways, but it can't actually be the solution for so many problems in the world.

SPEAKER_04

00:17:00

What do you think is the reality of this scenario where we have to sit in or have to learn to sit into these uncomfortable situations? And do you think there are exercises or strategies that people can employ to improve this aspect in themselves?

SPEAKER_03

00:17:19

Yes,

SPEAKER_03

00:17:20

I'm so glad that you mentioned that. I think that you're 100 % right. I think that we are so uncomfortable sitting in these spaces these days. And we don't want to be awkward. You know, we're not comfortable with any awkwardness. So I always say in my class, and it's like a funny thing in a classroom, but in a drama classroom when, you know, when one group is setting up for production and the other students are waiting and they, you know, when they whip out their phones invariably that are in their boots, under their arms, in their ears, they're everywhere. So they put them away and, you know, it goes into their ear and as they put it away,

SPEAKER_03

00:17:58

they probably have two or three more, you know. The other day a student had 200 desks and I said, Oh my God, they're multiplying. There's gonna be four, there's gonna be six. But I agree. I think that we are not comfortable with awkwardness and we're not comfortable without getting into specifics, but we're not comfortable with cognitive dissonance. We're not comfortable holding two thoughts. And I think we have to, I think we have to. I think we're living in a world that's more and more polarized and people are not listening to each other. or everybody's in their own echo chamber. And that worries me a great deal. It actually keeps me up at night. It's the main thing these days on my mind. And I think that, you know, I'm trying to talk to students. I am doing a unit currently on journalism. And of course I sneak in media and communications wherever I can. And what I'm trying to really reinforce in them is the importance of varied opinions, the importance of getting your information from as many sources as possible. And it takes time, of course. My dad, I really admire him for this because he would watch, and he still does, I think, watch five or six different news sources and read five or six different news sources. And we know that every news source has a bias. I mean, they're all coming from a certain position. So read as much as you can. And students are getting a lot of their information from TikTok or other social media sources.

SPEAKER_03

00:19:30

and it's good in a way because they are informed. I find that they're very informed. And sometimes when I tell them something, they're looking it up to see if I'm accurate. I think that's great. I think critical thinking is wonderful. And a student will say, actually it was May 7th, 1945, not, you know, they'll check my, you know, EE day. And they'll say, no, and I'll say, oh yeah, yeah, you're right, you know, dates are. So I think the critical thinking, I don't want to only focus on negative because I think their critical thinking is fantastic. And the fact that they're questioning adults is fantastic. I think they should always do that. And I always tell them, I'm not teaching you. My job is not to teach you what to think. Ever, ever, ever. My job is to encourage you to think and to think critically. And very sadly, some very extreme political leaders started as teachers, right? Because you have a lot of power as a teacher, right? You can mold and shape. And I always say that is not my job. My job is not to tell you what to think. And you are allowed to have diverse opinions. And we actually had a workshop.

SPEAKER_03

00:20:35

We had a speaker come in on a professional development day to talk about how do you navigate? How do you navigate difficult discussions? How do you let students be heard? But if they're saying something that really is bordering towards, because they don't always know that might be bordering towards hate speech or bordering towards offensive,

SPEAKER_03

00:20:55

So how to sort of navigate them and make them realize this is happening without making them feel unheard. So I think, I hope I'm answering your question, but I think that's part of it. I think that we do, we cannot lose that. And I think in this new generation, I think unfortunately we've lost some people already. Unfortunately, some people are very, very stuck in their echo chamber and I don't know how to get them out. I'm not sure what the answer is,

SPEAKER_03

00:21:23

But I think that for younger generations, we have to encourage them not to get stuck, not to get stuck in that, you know, one opinion that there's so there's a huge world out there. There are so many people who live differently, who think differently. And you know, you have to try to respect that.

SPEAKER_01

00:21:43

Hello, all, I hope you're enjoying this episode. I want to ask you, our listeners, if you could give us a review in your podcasting platform of choice. We don't have sponsors and we don't run ads, but we are looking to grow. So if you feel we bring value to your listening experience, please drop us a review when you get a chance. Thanks so much. It's so true. And it's, I mean, I really appreciate how you see your role as a teacher too, you know, that you're, you're saying it's not my job to tell you what to think. It's It's really my job to give you, you know, this lens to kind of examine the world through and to show you how to be curious and how to test things for yourself. And I definitely agree with you that, you know, having a lot of different sources of information that don't necessarily feel intuitive to you can be a good thing, but navigating them is where I get worried now, and I am really glad that there are teachers like you. Someone actually commented on the questions and discussion channel, who is a language teacher themselves, and said that they would be delighted to take your class because the world needs more passionate teachers. I was wondering, with all the experience that you've had, what prompted your interest in attending the MIT bootcamp program. Like why that program? And then have you found any of the tools from the disciplined entrepreneurship framework useful for you?

SPEAKER_03

00:23:22

Yes, thank you. So, and thank you for the kind words. I really, from everyone, I really, really appreciate that. That's really, really lovely.

SPEAKER_03

00:23:31

And, you know, I think part of what was happening in terms of me choosing to apply to the Innovation Leadership Bootcamp was that, like many people during the pandemic, I wanted to make sure that I was continuing to learn and continuing to challenge myself. And I have, you know, I don't have an entrepreneurship or a business background, but I have always been interested. I did start a production company for, you know, two years ago, I think it was, I decided to apply to a Fringe Festival. It's a theater festival. They have them all around the world, and you can, you know, write scripts and apply, and it's a lottery, which is really cool, because it levels the playing field. And I thought, you know, I always encourage my students. I mean, I will, you know, as I said, well, I'll say, put your phones away and I want you guys to talk to each other or go out in the school,

SPEAKER_03

00:24:35

you have 15 minutes and find this or find that, take risks, try things, very much experiential learning and inquiry based learning. And I thought to myself, okay, I have to, I say, I tell them to do this, I have to do it myself, I have to challenge myself. So I came upon this. So I started a production company, I needed to, in order to apply to this festival and actually got in, which was incredible. So now I'm thinking, okay, how can I use this company? Because I'd like to do things, it's quite brand new, but I'd like to do things that are theater based, but I'd also like to incorporate perhaps educational and arts ventures. And so I thought, okay, I'll learn a little bit about how to build a business. And so I just thought, okay, I saw this online and I thought, okay, I'll give it a, I'll give it a shot, I'll apply. And I also was thinking that, you know, another topic that fascinates me is how do you get education to people in the world who don't have access to it? So I remember that when I was being interviewed and I was being asked, you know, what is one area that you'd like to explore, that was something that I mentioned. And there's places in the world where girls are not allowed to be educated. You there's so many places where education is limited. And so that's something that I'd like to explore too. And I haven't begun a particular startup, but I am interested in that area. So I'm definitely putting it out there that if there's anyone who's interested in, you know, educational technology and startups in that area.

SPEAKER_03

00:26:16

But I thought, okay, I'll give it a try. And I have to say that, you know, it was so eye -opening to talk to people in the cohort that I was in. I was the only person who wasn't either an engineer or, you know, a data scientist. And it was so wonderful for me to learn the way other people learn who are in a different discipline. And in terms of the professors, I was constantly scribbling like a madwoman because it was difficult for me. This was not something I knew anything about and I had to keep up. So it was really good for my brain, I think. And I've definitely used it. I always say with this, it was life changing. It was really a life changing experience and it has stayed with me. And I think about it a lot in all of the things that I do, both education and other things. And part of it is, I love the idea of a problem opportunity, I think is how it's phrased. And I love that because it's just a great way to look at, you know, challenges and that, so that's a huge one. And, you they talk about, I think, entrepreneurship and is it entrepreneurship where you are innovating in the place where you currently are?

SPEAKER_03

00:27:46

And so I try to bring that problem solution, you know, mindset to my teaching. And I always tell students, you know, in the arts, everything is problem solving. So, you know, you're going to do a show and, you know, three of the mics don't work and, you know, your show is up in three hours, right? Or, you know, there's always things, one of your leads is sick or, you know, so you have to transpose the melodies because they can't sing at the key that, you know, in the key they were singing in. I also have a background in improv, right? And improvisational comedy is great for that, right? Like yes and, you know, you say yes to things and you move forward. So, so I think that's one of the huge things that I took away from the boot camp is that, you know, is that thinking that, how can I turn this into an opportunity? And how can I have a positive mindset?

SPEAKER_03

00:28:45

It was also so refreshing, coming back to the thing about people being in their own world that it just was so positive people from all over the world trying to make a difference, whether it's in their small communities, I love that. I absolutely love that. I think that that just puts me in such a positive frame of mind whenever I go back and catch up with other people in the bootcamp and what they're doing. So I think those are some of the things that I took away with me from my experience.

SPEAKER_04

00:29:18

Thank you. You mentioned earlier about translational skills where you like, you can use them from that, you know, you get the skills in one area and then you can use them elsewhere.

SPEAKER_04

00:29:29

Now at my, my employer, Shark Ninja, when someone, when an engineer goes from being a normal level engineer to being a senior engineer, they're always signed on to a course in presence in how to sort of convey themselves. And I admit when I first read about it, I was like, oh, I don't know if this is going be very useful for me. But I went through it and I have to say, I think every single engineer should go through it. It's about how, I think it was like the three circles where you're like, first circle where you're less, you know, more quiet, more listening to others, getting perspectives in. The middle circle where you're sort of communicating and getting perspectives from people but you're also taking a place on the stage. And then the third circle where you're of leading the discussion and pushing forward on perspective. And I thought it was so well done and so well thought out that I was, I'm absolutely flabbergasted with how useful that is as an engineer, which isn't where at all the skill was sort of designed to apply. I'd love to get your perspective on these sorts of things where skills from acting and drama and education, And actually, like, obviously, those skills are very useful there and they're very important areas, but how you think they can apply elsewhere to other people?

SPEAKER_03

00:30:54

Yay, give me the opportunity to speak about this. I love it. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, we always try to promote our program. And one of the things that we say, we do have students, as you said, who will be in the arts and who will be actors, producers, or, you know, they're working um behind the scenes uh or media or broadcast uh journalism um but as you said it's so uh uh it's it's so important and so relevant to all professions and um uh so we talk about that all the time and you know I always say that when I'm when I'm talking about careers and teaching careers I always say that um you know they say soft skills and hard skills but I prefer the term transferable skills, because these are the ones that you need in all careers, right? That aren't career specific. And I very much, when you were talking about the circles, it reminded me of Stanislavski, you this very famous acting teacher that most people who study, you know, performing arts, they learn some of his theories. But yeah, there's the personal circle, and then there's the wider circle.

SPEAKER_03

00:32:11

And it's been adapted, I guess, to public speaking and interacting with others. And, you know, one of the things that is so transferable is, you know, you're working when you're working in the arts, you're working in a team, and you have deadlines, you also have a fair bit of creativity. So all of those things, you when deciding what they want to make art about, they have to listen to each other. It's decision making by consensus, everyone needs to be heard, not everyone's ideas are going to be taken, potentially, but everybody needs to be heard. And you need to iterate, right, as we talked about in the program as well. You need, you know, you start broad, and then you narrow it down. And you come up with your idea and then you're, you know, and then you're creating, you're building it, you're shaping it. And all along the way, you have to, um, you have to kind of balance two things. I say this to students all the time. You have to balance creativity with the realities of the world, which is that there are deadlines and they're going to be expecting a product within a certain time. Um, and, you know, sometimes people think, Oh, the arts very and I would say, no, so, you know, not like that at all. You have very, very specific parameters. And I always talk about the fact that there is creativity in engineering. There's creativity in science. I how do people come up with vaccines, right? They have to shed away everything that, you know, did it's like a Venn diagram, right? But also they have to shed away everything that didn't, that's not relevant from the previous vaccines,

SPEAKER_03

00:33:56

but they have to figure out what's the overlap. And, you know, and they have to think creatively and they have to, so there's creativity in every field but I think that, you know, there's also a huge crossover between science and math and music, right? So there's a lot of students who, in the music program and, you know, I just went to their year end show and, you know, a lot of the students who were in their bands were also love science and love math and love. But at the end of the day, you can't work effectively, I really believe you cannot work effectively. And unless you learn how to, how to be a leader, you know, how to lead by being the leader, how to be the worker bee who's leading by example, and just getting things started and saying, Hey, guys, let's, you know, let's get going. And that applies in for a high school project, but it also applies for a master's thesis and it also applies, you know, in the work world. Excuse me. So, I think that's how I just believe so strongly that these transferable skills are so, so, so important and you get a lot of them in the arts.

SPEAKER_01

00:35:15

I mean, I'm definitely biased, but I very much agree with you. I was a kid that scholastically was not very focused. I think it's bad to say you're good or bad at school but I was I was definitely not focused on curriculum but I was very engaged with the arts and I feel like everything I learned creatively and about curiosity and about problem -solving as you indicated has greatly helped me later on when I learned to become a better student. It's really amazing listening to your journey. I know that it probably wasn't all roses and sunshine. And I was wondering if there's any particular point that comes to your mind where you felt like you had to make a major pivot or you deviated from the plan. And how do you go about deciding what to do?

SPEAKER_01

00:36:13

and how do you look at it now, retroactively? What did it teach you?

SPEAKER_03

00:36:19

Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, one thing for sure, like a lot of educators, when we had to start teaching remotely, we had one quick, you know, the school had no choice. We had to, as you said, we had to pivot so quickly. So we had one quick workshop on how to use Zoom. It was like, they had to teach every teacher at our school in one day. So we had, it was like a conveyor belt. We had to just go in and learn. And and, you know, and it was, I remember being so overwhelmed and, you know, first using the learn, you know, learning to use the program and the creators also pivoted and added new features as they saw what teachers needed. And it was a fascinating time in that sense, because we had such a direct, I mean, our head of educational technology was literally conversing with the creators of this program and saying, well, you know, you have to find a way to let people in gradually, you know, because literally teachers were crying. They were saying people are coming into my class. I don't know who they are and they're not my students

SPEAKER_03

00:37:23

and I don't know how to navigate that. And literally I saw the program shifting to meet educators' needs. And I thought that was fascinating, but it was so overwhelming. And then figuring out how are you gonna teach? I mean, how am I gonna teach drama? online. And there was a time, believe it or not, where we had half students in the room and half online, and they would alternate. So we had a cohort A and B. So A was in the room, B was at home, and then B was in the room, A was at home. You're trying to do activities where half are online and half are in the room. And you know, you're doing a warm up and there's a delay. I did production when student was across the world. There were students in one country and students in the classroom and they were literally saying lines together. I there were times where I had to be at home because I had to, I was sick and I had to isolate and you know so the kids saw my huge head on the screen and they were in the room and I was away so I mean so many computations and you know permutations and it was just such a like a dizzying time and I think I just sort of said to myself

SPEAKER_03

00:38:34

okay, I'm going to, after I cried to my principal once, I said, okay, I'm going to try to use this as an opportunity to learn. And, you know, every, we have a learning platform and there were constantly new programs that were being put online for us to try. And I thought, okay, I'm going to try these ed tech programs. I'm going to try to learn them. I'm going to use, you know, I don't have to use every single one, but I'm going to try to use them and learn them and see how I can make things as meaningful as possible for students. And so, you know, that was hugely and everybody was in the same boat, no matter what profession you were in. And I think all teachers were in the same boat where you just had to figure things out. And it shook us up. And, you we had a professional development day where we said, OK, what things from this pandemic time would you keep? Which ones do you not want to keep? But which ones would you like to keep? And I mean, there are pluses. The fact that we can invite speakers into our classroom from anywhere in the world is pretty cool, right?

SPEAKER_03

00:39:37

They don't have to be they don't have to come in physically. So there are things that we've taken away from it that I think are great. But of course, it was very challenging at the beginning. And then I think for me now, I'm actually it's funny that you asked about this now, because I'm actually sort of thinking about next steps, because I think I would like And I think without realizing it, that might've been sometimes you do things and it's more sort of visceral, it's like your limbic system. You're not really, you don't know why yet, right? And I think part of it is, I think I'm sort of wanting to take some next steps. And to be honest, I don't know what they are yet, but I think I would like not necessarily to stop teaching, but I think I would like to add other things into the mix, you know? Um, so hopefully, uh, having done the bootcamp, um, has taught me that the combination of having done the bootcamp and also, um, having to, uh, you know, shift and pivot and change the way we all taught, um, hopefully that stayed with me and I will continue to not be afraid of challenges, you know, to try new things.

SPEAKER_04

00:40:47

Absolutely. That's excellent. I'm really excited to hear about when, as you know more about what the next things will be, the next steps. Very excited to hear about that. Thank you. Now, one of our listeners, Carlos, has got a question of his own.

SPEAKER_02

00:41:03

Well,

SPEAKER_02

00:41:03

Elodie, let me tell you, thank you so much for sharing your experience. It's been extremely inspiring for me because I also teach English as a second language in Venezuela. By the way, I am in Venezuela.

SPEAKER_02

00:41:15

So I've got a question and it is what do you think about mistakes in terms of the learning process and teaching experience, you know, because I tell my students that mistakes are fully allowed. and we all can make them, you know, the red plaque will show up if we make the same mistake over three times, you know, otherwise, that's totally fine. But I know that there are some teachers that hate mistakes. So I'm just wondering, what do you think about it? Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

00:41:56

It's so nice to meet you, Carlos, and so cool to hear from another teacher, and yeah, thank you for being here and thank you for asking this question. I think it's so, so important. I know that in drama classes, you know, there are a lot of students at my school who have a very vigorous and rigorous program, and they worry. We have a lot of very hard workers, we have a lot of perfectness, and they are so worried about making mistakes and you know and it's also when you're an adolescent right it's like the worst thing in the world to be embarrassed and so they are afraid to take creative risks but I always tell them that that's where the growth happens you know I give the example that I was on holiday and some friends were going ziplining and I was terrified but I did it And, you know, and I felt so proud of myself afterwards. So, I mean, not to the point where, you know, when there are students who are afraid to do presentations, I'll always ask them. I have another sister who's a social worker, so I'm very lucky I have really wise sisters who have guided me.

SPEAKER_03

00:43:06

And she, you know, she does that CBT with people who are anxious and nervous. And she always tells me to ask, okay, what's the level? If a student says, I'm nervous to present or I'm worried about making a mistake, If a level is a 9 or 10, maybe you're not ready yet to present or, you know, but if it's a 2 or 3, maybe challenge yourself, you know. And I think in drama class, drama class is a place where, you know, we're playing games and we're doing silly and fun things. And I always say, you know, we're doing an improv game and it's alphabet improv and you have to say a sentence with the next letter and a student can't think of it. Somebody else will give you a letter. It's okay. Someone will jump in and they'll give you a sentence or they'll give you a letter. So it's okay. You know, don't be worried. We're here to have fun. And I think it's a great place. Of course, there's places where if you make a mistake, it counts hugely. So of course, that's part of, you know, if they're going to go into a field where mistakes are very costly, of course, that's something to keep in mind. But in the classroom, that's the laboratory, right? That's the place to try things. And I

SPEAKER_03

00:44:13

think, yeah, I think mistakes are, I think it's really important to let students know that mistakes are necessary. You can't learn without them. You if you're reading phonetically, and you're sounding letters out for, you for language learning, if you're learning to read phonetically, you have to make mistakes, right? Or if you're learning a second language, you have to. And I know you said you teach language learners. I know that I've always been told when I was learning another language, French, for example, I'd be afraid to speak. And people would say, no, you have to speak. If you don't speak, you won't. And so, of course, use the wrong word and, you know, it's fine. But I think that's, it's very, very important. Because I do think that there's a lot of anxiety these days. I think young people are feeling very anxious for many reasons. And I think one of the reasons is they feel that they have to get everything right. Yeah, so, yes, I am a huge, huge believer, yeah, in trying things, experimenting.

SPEAKER_01

00:45:36

Great answer, yeah. I was going to say, did that answer your question, Carlos? Sorry.

SPEAKER_02

00:45:42

Yeah, absolutely. It sure does. Thank you. You're very welcome.

SPEAKER_01

00:45:46

And thank you so much for that great question, too. I think you know you make such a good point too that like I mean like those those lessons going back to what Spencer was saying too about us being not as comfortable maybe now like seeing things that make us uncomfortable like getting more comfortable with mistakes and moving forward I think is is such a key part of learning and and such a skill that we need for the rest of life. I know that we're close to the end of the hour but if it's okay with you we've got one more question for you. Do you have a couple more minutes? Sure, sure, of course. We're wondering if what words of wisdom you might want to leave us with today and you can make this as big or little of a question as you want. It could be a quote that someone shared with you or a motto that you live by or just something that you're liking this week?

SPEAKER_03

00:46:49

Wow. Okay. Well, I don't know how wise I am, but there is one thing that really stayed with me in terms of teaching. And it was one of our first sort of special education teachers at our school. And she said something that really stuck with me. And she sort of said that, you know, accommodation is not giving every student the same thing, but it's giving every student what they need. And, you know, it's tricky as an educator to figure out what each student needs, because, you know, one of them might need really tough love. So they'll ask for an extension and you'll say, nope, get it done. And you say, because you know them, you know, You say it with love because you know them and you know that this is what they need, whereas there's someone else and you know that they're going through a lot right now and they really need that time. So you say, sure, yeah, when do you need? What will work for you?

SPEAKER_03

00:47:52

So that really stayed with me. And I think it can apply to life as well, that there's times that we need to be really tough on ourselves too. You're on a deadline and you don't go easy on yourself and you say, no, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get it done. But then there's other times where you need to be kind to yourself too and give yourself what you need, whether it's taking care of yourself or time or, so that's something that really stayed with me. And I try to keep it in mind, both when I'm teaching and outside of the classroom.

SPEAKER_04

00:48:34

Thank you very much, I really appreciate that. I think that resonates with me quite well as well, I think it is that importance of understanding the time when to be the tough love and when to be the

SPEAKER_04

00:48:48

you know giving yourself the leniency you need. Thank you so much Laurie, we really appreciate your thoughts and everything you've shared with us and taught us today.

SPEAKER_03

00:48:57

Oh, you're very welcome. And thank you for doing what you guys do. I think this is a great, great community and I really appreciate that you got it started.

SPEAKER_04

00:49:06

It's an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much, Lori.

SPEAKER_00

00:49:20

You've just finished another episode of Founders Voyage, the podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. The team at Founders Voyage wants to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We hope you enjoyed your time with us, and if so, please share this with someone else who might enjoy this podcast. You can also support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and by donating to our Patreon. Outro music today is Something for Nothing by Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band.