Ep 212 Creative Writing and Poetry with Emily A Myers
Pencils&Lipstick podcast ·
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Transcript
SPEAKER_00
00:00:05
Hello
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everyone, welcome back to Pencils & Lipstick. I'm Kat Caldwell and today is January 8th and
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this is episode 212. Today is the second week of January 2024. Remember when you were writing your date that the year has changed. And we are going to continue this talk of creativity and writing in this year. I want you guys to embrace every aspect of your creativity as writers. And who better to help us do this
SPEAKER_01
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than my good friend Emily A. Myers. She is an amazing person as well as writer. She has quite a few books out there. She has Romantic Suspense, Contemporary, Romance. She has won awards. She has been runner up for awards. It's pretty amazing. Her debut novel, The Truth About Unspeakable Things, was an award winner already. She had a great debut novel. And then she's coming out, has come out with, last week, I Still Have Love to Give, a book of poetry. Now, like Emily, I bet a lot of you guys out there write creatively in many different ways, Whether you publish in all the genres you write in or not is probably a business decision, or just personal decision.
SPEAKER_01
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But I think that there are ways that we can embrace the creativity that we have within ourselves. Painters paint, sculptors sculpt, and writers write. So we can write in many different genres, different modes and manners, and this has a lot to do with where we are in our life. And so Emily and I talk about not only creativity, but mental health and how to go back and forth with between genres and why poetry is beneficial. And I am happy to say that she has been embraced by her fans, by readers through this poetry, which I think is amazing. So I want you guys to take this as encouragement for all the other things that you write that you might not have published, or you might think maybe you're not publishing them because you think people won't react properly to them. Maybe you think poetry's dead. I want you guys to be encouraged that all ways of writing, all the creative fields are open to you, and getting it out there is a brave thing to do and most likely will be better received than you think.
SPEAKER_01
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I want us to walk into 2022 really willing to embrace every aspect of our creativity, of the stories that we have in our heads, and the many thousands of ways that we can get them onto paper. You know, you don't just have to write third -person deep perspective or first -person deep perspective. There are many ways that you can get that story onto paper that will be very different and we'll speak in different ways to your readers. So without further ado, let's talk to Emily A. Myers. You can find the links in the show notes below and be sure to check out her book, I Still Have Love to Give, that is her latest poetry book. But of course, also if you are a romantic suspense reader, check out The Truth About Unspeakable Things, number one in the unspeakable duology.
SPEAKER_01
00:03:33
Let's talk to Emily. Hi, Emily. I'm so excited to have you back. It's been a while since we've chatted.
SPEAKER_00
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Yeah, it has been. I'm really excited.
SPEAKER_01
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Can you, before we talk about what is new and exciting in your life, can you let everyone know just a little bit like what do you write and who you are?
SPEAKER_00
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Yeah. So I'm Emily A. Myers. I'm a romantic suspense author primarily, but this year instead of moving forward with some fiction writing, I decided to do more of a therapy project for me. It was therapy for me. It's poetry meets self -help, and that's what we're excited to talk about today. Yeah, but you can find me on all social media, primarily Instagram and TikTok, at emilymyersauthor. Myers is M -Y -E -R -S. Yeah, and just reach out to me via my website, emilyameyers .com if you want to talk about publishing, marketing, social media, or my book specifically. Happy to talk to you about any of that.
SPEAKER_01
00:04:42
Very cool. So how was this pivot from fiction into poetry? I mean, I guess poetry, it's still a very creative process,
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right?
SPEAKER_01
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Have you always written poetry or was that a big jump?
SPEAKER_00
00:04:56
Yeah, so I've always written different things like even when I was a little kid, I would write songs. And in college, I majored in English, but actually the majority of the classes that I took were poetry classes. Yeah, because we didn't have a teacher offering a lot of fiction classes. So poetry has always been part of my life. It's always been an outlet that I turn to in times of high stress or when I need to get things off my chest, process my emotions. So I actually started writing poems that did find their way into this collection a couple years ago when I was going through my divorce. Um, so not all of those made it in, but some of them did. And that
SPEAKER_00
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ended up being kind of the start of this collection before I even knew that this would exist. And this year, I, I basically started dating again for the first time. And so there was a lot to a lot of emotions, a lot of things to process a lot of more work to do in therapy on my part, to to get to a good place to be able to do all of that and be comfortable with that. So I was writing poetry again. And so this new book that I have is just basically representative of years of this heartbreak to hope journey.
SPEAKER_01
00:06:27
Yeah, that's amazing. I really like, I mean, I think you're really brave to do it because I think a lot of writers have another medium that they might dabble in, you know, but to bring it out into like poetry is really personal a lot of times.
SPEAKER_00
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So
SPEAKER_01
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always tell people like I can't edit your poetry because it's, it's just so I don't know the rules. First of all, you know, there are some rules, but it's very personal. Like, how do you tell someone to
SPEAKER_01
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change that? You know, like, no, it is. It is what it is. So I've interviewed a couple poets, I just find you guys very courageous and awesome.
SPEAKER_00
00:07:05
So how was
SPEAKER_01
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I'm thinking like, Like, how do you think it helps writers, like your writer brain? How do you think that helps you just with like, I know personally I can see how that outlet would help you, but do you think it connects to your writing and to your ability to write your books and get into your characters? Do you think that poetry helps you in that way?
SPEAKER_00
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Um, I think for me as a writer, I always have words inside of me that need to come out. So, but it's it's just such a big undertaking to write a fiction book, because there's so much more to it there's the world building, and there's tracking your plot tracking characters maintaining voice, there's so many things. And that is, it's not something that I could do earlier this year, because my mind was so focused on other things. I when I'm writing a book, I have to be so locked in on that, that it's not actually for me personally, it's not a stress relief. It's not a way for me to process my emotions. It's really a way for me to get lost in another character and like step outside of myself. So for me poetry is my way of processing my emotions but it's it's strange because the other day I was reading back over a book um that we actually haven't talked about either this came out at the end of last year it was a mafia romance and I was reading and then I read the some of the poems right after and I realized Oh my gosh, I'm using some of the same phrases and some of the same like tone in the writing describing my life and describing the character's life. That was kind of a surreal experience for sure.
SPEAKER_01
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So it kind of crosses over. Maybe you're able to access emotions through a different point of view almost like because you're in
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that
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character. I mean, our brains are so amazing, but I think you have a really good point because being an indie author is a lot. Like probably being a traditional as well, but we focus on indies here. Like we were talking before, you have the marketing, you have the book, you have to deal with reviews. Like everyone says you have to grow a thick skin, but easier said than done, right? Yeah. As you said, we, we have to be committed to the book that we're in. So it's not as much as we love writing. It doesn't take care of the mental health, right? Like
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it doesn't
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actually take care of us.
SPEAKER_01
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It's still is kind of work. Right?
SPEAKER_00
00:10:04
Yeah. Like, and I mean, let's see, a couple years ago when I was going through my divorce is actually, when I wrote my second book, which we talked about in my first interview, found by the unspeakable, and that book took me eight months to write, just the writing part, not the editing and anything else, just writing versus the first book took two months to write. And so I was just like hell bent on like writing that book, because I was like, I'm not gonna like let this personal experience derail my goals, but it was a, it was a struggle. It really was. And what I've learned is that when I'm not in a good place mentally, I cannot write the way that I want to. And it's just draining when a book takes that long to write. So I would rather just like take a few months off and not write and then come back and know that when I do start it, I'll probably end up finishing it at about the same time that I would have if I would have started it three months prior. Oh,
SPEAKER_01
00:11:17
that's such a good point though, because you're taking the time to take care of yourself. I think in this weird indie world, we're always talking about getting more books out. But quite frankly, if you can't focus, like you said. Because anyone who hasn't finished their book or is listening and hasn't written a book, like you said, that's just the writing. That doesn't include the editing, the formatting, the marketing, the just getting it out. And if you're done with your book by that point, you might not even end up marketing it.
SPEAKER_00
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You might just
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be like, oh, I'm done.
SPEAKER_01
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So then, when you took the time to dive into the poetry, like was most of the poetry written and you were putting it together? You just decided to put it together as a book or did you take time out and you didn't even know you were gonna do a book?
SPEAKER_00
00:12:07
Right, so the majority of this book was written this year. There's only a couple of poems from years ago when I was going through my divorce because it's actually three sections. Okay. So the first section kind of deals with the heartbreak. So it's like me reflecting on that divorce. So some of those were from a couple years ago, the middle section is all completely this year, like me and my dating life and all of that. And then the third section is kind of a culmination of like what I've learned in my experience and what I've learned therapy. And it's describing the type of love that I want, which I think can be helpful for someone out there who, you know, maybe they're trying to figure out what kind of love they want. And so if they can hear someone else describe it, maybe they're like, Oh, I do like that, or I do want that. And then actually, in the back of the book, we have a survival guide, which is multiple parts and it's everything that I've learned in therapy about, you know, dating apps and rejection and heartbreak
SPEAKER_00
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and unhealthy attachments, all the stuff. So, yeah, so the majority of this was written this year and, but I really didn't figure out that it would be what it is until this summer.
SPEAKER_01
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Really? So when, when did you decide that you were going to share this? Because again, it's personal, like it, that's a pretty personal journey. What made you want to share it with people?
SPEAKER_00
00:13:50
Well, okay. So earlier, like in the spring, I was writing more than just about this. I was diving into some things that I'd experienced in childhood. I was going to write about losing my dad to cancer, I was gonna have just a book that was just everything. And it was just this Coleman cumulative therapy project. But when I got to writing about those things, I was like, I started to think, Oh, do I want my family to read this? Do I want to deal with these repercussions? Like I just, you know, I just started second guessing. And so then I dialed back and I was like, okay, let me look at what I do have. And that's when I realized everything was really about love and heartbreak. And I was like, okay, from a marketing standpoint, that's a very clear description of what this collection is. So this is going to be easier to market than something that might include love and grief and loss and like just a lot of different things. So, it was probably over the summer when I had that realization of, okay, this is what it's going to be.
SPEAKER_00
00:15:02
I am going to publish this. And reason why I decided to publish it is because I thought if I had a daughter, and like, let's say, God forbid, I were to pass away young, and she were to grow up and have to go through her dating experiences and trying to find the love of her life without me or without someone to help her, I would want her to have this. I I, I, you know, I think that there's a lot of really good value here and if it can help people then that is why I'm publishing it.
SPEAKER_01
00:15:38
I love that reason that that that's such a beautiful reason because I, I think that we have the ability to process stuff as writers if we're willing to put it out there in writing, you know? Like a lot of people journal, a lot of people overwrite their books because really they're processing through it, right? So the fact that you're willing to put down like just that processing journey of like, yeah, it takes a while, especially after heartache, to realize what do I want? Do you even get to ask that question? Even getting to that point of accepting
SPEAKER_01
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that you can choose that, just being able to see that process is pretty amazing. I love that you have that reason for it. When you decided that, was it pretty easy to put it together? Did it just sort of it was easy to choose the poems or was it quite a bit of work to decide what went in and what went out?
SPEAKER_00
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I went in with the idea of I am gonna write what I wanna write and I'm not gonna censor myself. And so I just wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote with the understanding that if I felt uncomfortable
SPEAKER_00
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with something after the fact, I didn't have to publish it. So I wrote everything that I wanted to, and then I started to just basically format it in a chronological order. The way that the book is formatted, it really does tell a story from beginning to end. And after each section of poetry, I even have a lesson learned, like I have like a lesson learned, you really can't see, but then I have a commentary section, which is me reflecting. So it really is, even if you were just to read the commentary, you would have a complete story of what has happened and what I've learned. And so there were poems that I did cut because I thought, well, maybe this was too offensive to the, and obviously there are no names there, but you know, people who know who I've been with are going to know potentially who it's about, but, you know, but the, the grand world is not going to know. And so I, you know, but I'm, I'm still mindful of that, you know, like, of how would this make this person feel? Do I feel comfortable with certain people reading this? And also, one thing to note too, is that, you know, this has been a healing journey. And so while maybe there were some poems that were written with a little more anger or feist to them. It's like, okay, now at this point, is it worth publishing that? So there were some things that I included because I felt that the reader could really relate and maybe the reader needs that. Maybe they need that for their own, like, yeah, you know? But then also for me, I had to be like, well, you know, I'm not necessarily going to publish like the worst of it, you know, because I'm beyond that at this point, but right, right. Yeah. So there were some poems that I cut and then really just, you know, the lineup thinking about the chronological events of when things happened, you know, I went back and forth with it a couple of times, but it wasn't that difficult.
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00:19:29
Do you think that your idea of storytelling helped with this project?
SPEAKER_00
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Absolutely. It's weird because when the collection was finally done, the lineup was set,
SPEAKER_00
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I was like, this really does read like a romance novel. It really does. It's in poetic form and that has the nonfiction aspects to it. But if, you know, for me, it's nonfiction, for someone else out there, they're reading about someone else's life. So for them, it might be an escape or something. And so it really does read like a romance novel. The only difference is I don't end up with the love of my life at the end.
SPEAKER_01
00:20:18
You know what though, love stories really I think are about deciding what kind of love the character wants. We want as a reader to know that they end up together, but it's because they've realized like they're worth that love, or that's the person that they want because of these reasons. you know, and unfortunately, real life is not always clean cut.
SPEAKER_00
00:20:47
You know, and I keep telling myself, like, for example, in one of the books that I've written, there's like, you know, a time jump at the end of the book before they end up actually getting their happily ever after. And so I'm like, you know, this is not fiction, this poetry collection is not fiction. My life is still happening. My story is still happening. So who knows, maybe a year from now after my time jump, I will have that person. But this has really been about,
SPEAKER_00
00:21:24
I guess, truly understanding what I want from a relationship. And and also, just kind of like what I've learned in this entire process.
SPEAKER_01
00:21:36
Right. And so how do you think it would compare? It sounds a lot like a memoir, but in poetry form, but you said that you decided to not write sort of that nonfiction -ish, maybe like the more standard nonfiction memoir. How do you think it compares with, do you think you'll go back to trying to write another nonfiction? Or you just, I guess, happy with this format like maybe this will be a format that you um return to um
SPEAKER_00
00:22:10
i i really really love this format i think that poetry has a way of connecting with people unlike anything else um i mean and it has those aspects of a traditional non -fiction book with the commentary but i think I think this book is like the perfect go between for people who enjoy fiction and people who enjoy nonfiction, because the poetry has those that just that lyrical beauty that just resonates with your soul, and then the, all of the reflection that happens and the commentary and the survival guide is gonna, you know, actually, it's almost like it does that literary analysis for you. You don't have to sit there and think about every single thing like you can enjoy it for what it is. And then I'm gonna explain it like explain everything that's happened. You know, after it's over. I really, I just really enjoy that. And in the future, I mean, I'm definitely open to writing. I know that I'll write more poetry. I even if it's just for me, I know that I'll write it. But I would be open to doing another book in a similar format like this at some point. But again, it would have to be about something that's very personal to me and very important to me because I am not the person who's going to go out and sit in the field of flowers and write poetry about the flower like that's not me like I'm writing about things that have actually happened in my life and honestly, it's almost like songs. Okay. So that's that's where I'm at. Okay.
SPEAKER_01
00:24:02
I love that so if if somebody's listening to this and they're like that just sounds like something that I need like I need to have some
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00:24:11
self -therapy, like, is there a way to start poetry? Like what, how would you tell people if they haven't had any background in songwriting or poetry writing? Are there rules? Are there places that people should go? What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00
00:24:28
Technically, um, there are some rules. There are some standard poetic forms. However, I do not follow them. I write free verse. And so free verse is, is practically rule free. So basically, just start writing, like, just start writing what What you feel, and then I think you'll start to. As you write, you know, you'll figure out words that rhyme to kind of put at the end of each line and, but really it's not that difficult I mean I will literally read. I'm trying to find like a section that might. I could read just to give an example. All right, so I'm going to read this one little tiny section. This one is from A Good Enough Reason. Our predicament became too complicated, too many hours spent waiting for text, too much desperation for that good sex, only for me to feel even lonelier when it would end. I got attached to a man who only ever saw me as a friend.
SPEAKER_01
00:25:52
Oh, I love that. I mean, I don't love that you went through that, but I love how much is in just that little bit, how much you can relate to that.
SPEAKER_00
00:26:05
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
00:26:06
So you saying a lot of it is just practicing, putting, probably opening up your emotions onto actual ink and paper, And then as you do it, like finding that flow, like, is it difficult
SPEAKER_00
00:26:22
to
SPEAKER_01
00:26:22
let go of the grammar that we're so trying to teach
SPEAKER_00
00:26:27
ourselves? Honestly, for me, no. I mean, I wrote all of this practically on my phone on my couch. Whereas when I'm writing a novel, I'm in my office at my computer and I've got a bunch of screens open because I've got setting
SPEAKER_00
00:26:43
notes and I've got character descriptions and it's a whole thing. It's a process. But with poetry, it's very like, I don't have to think. I just write what I feel and I'm typing it out on my phone. It doesn't have to be perfect. When I actually go in to format it into the appropriate stanzas, you know, then I'll run it through something like Grammarly or pro -writing aid, you want to make sure that if you're referencing the name of a movie or something, you're going to put that in italics. Or if you're referencing, in the nonfiction parts, I reference a book that I was reading at the time. And so you're going to format things like that appropriately. You're going to have appropriate grammar and punctuation in the nonfiction aspects. But the poetry itself, it's free. And I would say if you've ever, what is it? It's like open mic. I'm trying to think of what the word is. It's like when you go to a poetry reading and people are just, I can't remember what the word is.
SPEAKER_01
00:28:00
Is it free flow? Is
SPEAKER_00
00:28:01
that what it's? It's basically if there's a word, it's something like But it's like literally just talk the way that you would talk just type it out in your phone. And then okay. Yeah
SPEAKER_01
00:28:14
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01
00:28:15
Okay, so really just getting to that place maybe maybe for someone would even be easier to dictate out Just like yeah,
SPEAKER_00
00:28:23
you could definitely And I think for me because I write Romance, I think I just have a very lyrical romantic way of thinking and expressing that maybe not everyone has, but everyone has their own voice. And when you're writing a poetry collection that is truly therapy for you. you should write it in your voice. Like if you have a dry sense of humor or if you, you know, use a lot of profanity or whatever the case is, write it like you basically. And that's what will make your work unique.
SPEAKER_01
00:29:01
Yeah, I love that. So do you, you mentioned marketing before cause you're an indie writer and you've had to do this. How, how does it differ?
SPEAKER_01
00:29:11
Does it differ to put out a poetry book?
SPEAKER_00
00:29:14
It does a little bit. So I've had a lot of fun with creating promotional graphics and reels in the same vein that I would for a fiction novel. So like I have a Pinterest board with inspiration inspired by the poems. And so, you know, I've on my Instagram I will have graphics made and you could look at that graphic and be like, Is that for a poetry collection or a dark romance? Like it's similar,
SPEAKER_00
00:29:48
but when you're actually reaching out to reviewers, you're thinking beyond people who read books. You're thinking about people who are, you know, experts in the actual nonfiction industry. So, well, the nonfiction aspects of your book. So like my book being about divorce and dating and mental health and self -love, things like that. I'm also looking at people who, you know, are writing books in those fields or doing podcasts in those fields, different like dating coaches, divorce, you know, experts, different things like that. So it is thinking beyond just a book reviewer. It is really trying to expand your audience and so just like I'm reaching out and doing different podcast interviews, I'm also going to look into doing some guest blogging opportunities, you know, writing about the more, the nonfiction side, like the advice side. Okay.
SPEAKER_01
00:30:58
Yeah. So you're, you have to like our book swaps, you have to swap differently. Like you just have to sort of tweak, I guess, your thought process on who you're going to look for.
SPEAKER_01
00:31:09
Maybe not other authors, maybe other authors, but maybe just like bloggers or experts or podcasts who deal with that and have,
SPEAKER_00
00:31:17
yeah,
SPEAKER_01
00:31:18
that's, yeah, that's a lot of work though.
SPEAKER_00
00:31:21
It is and you know, it's kind of like launching two books in one because I'm still reaching out to the people who have reviewed my fiction books, people who have, you know, been followers of me since the beginning. And thankfully, some of them have, you know, agreed to review this book as well, just because they're supporters of me, even if they don't normally read poetry. So it's like I have those connections. But I'm also trying to expand my audience. And
SPEAKER_01
00:31:57
well,
SPEAKER_01
00:31:58
you might find new readers as well for fiction, right?
SPEAKER_00
00:32:01
I'm hoping, I'm hoping. And because and that's the thing is like, when you think about someone who reads mafia romance or romantic suspense like they may read other things too but even if they don't like I think that sadly almost anyone can relate to a form of heartbreak and a dating experience and love and so if they're willing to give it a chance even though it's poetry and some aren't but if they are I think anyone can find value in this just because of what it's about because like I said it is different than a standard book of poetry that might be about nature or whatever I'm sorry I don't mean to diss any nature poetry writers but like it is different right
SPEAKER_01
00:32:57
it's definitely it's an Emily Meyers I mean you have suspenseful romance you have mafia romance like that is not you know contemporary light -hearted ski patrol romance like that is this is you right so most likely the readers of your romance will probably dig like really gritty raw down to earth this is you know this is my experience
SPEAKER_01
00:33:22
um because they might be going to your your fiction for that as well like right because we go to fiction to see if somebody else got a different experience from what we got. Or like, I don't know, when we're sad, we want to watch sad stuff. We're kind of like that. I was going to ask you something because we were talking about marketing and your... Yeah, so how... Because you kind of write on the darker side, now that you've gone through some self -therapy, has that changed? Were you afraid that you were going to get healed and all better and your romance was going to change at all or are
SPEAKER_00
00:34:07
you
SPEAKER_01
00:34:08
still able to write that?
SPEAKER_00
00:34:10
It's weird because I'm in the process now of figuring out what my next steps are fiction -wise And there was a hot minute where I was like maybe I should write something a little more contemporary. Maybe I could dabble in romantic comedy. That would be easier for me long term, but my writing just naturally goes suspenseful and dark. And so, I'm in the process of, you know, thinking about what my next book will be. And in thinking about that, it's like I was trying to force myself to make it contemporary. But my mind naturally was like, oh my God, I see how this could be mafia right now. I see how this could be dark romantic suspense right now. And so I just think that's probably where my storytelling is just going to keep me.
SPEAKER_01
00:35:11
Good. I think most people will say with relief, you know, like sometimes as writers think we have to be the angsty people that never work through our stuff because what if it changes
SPEAKER_01
00:35:24
our art form and like our whole series goes off the rail because, you we're all better now and you know, whatever. I'm not sure that we're ever all better, but you know, I think it's one of the reasons why maybe sometimes we don't want to touch things, right? But has it helped you taking this time off and just working on yourself and mentally has it helped you, you think, with then confronting your next writing project?
SPEAKER_00
00:35:53
I do think so for sure. I feel like mentally I think I'm in a lot better place than I was throughout the better part of this year. And I mean, I would say even things that happened, like within the past two months, like even two months ago, I wasn't where I am now. So it is still pretty recent, but I do feel like I'm getting to a good place to where I can focus on other things. And, you know, I am excited to start thinking about another book. I mean, I have so many ideas, but it's really just about deciding what's the best direction to move in for longevity, because as a self -published author, it's hard to just write one book and and not follow that up with a book that's either going to be a part of that series or in the same genre because you don't have a lot of read through and you're not continuously building your audience. But so that's what I'm really hoping to do is like whether that's expanding the mafia world that I created with the book that I released last year or just just starting fresh, like, but starting with the intention of writing a series. So that's what I'm trying to figure out right now. And of course, there's that debate between do I continue to self publish? Do I try to get a traditional book deal, but it's difficult. That's why I was thinking about contemporary because I don't think that romantic suspense mafia romance is as accepted in the traditional market. And then you also think there's so many authors competing in that sphere right now who are self -publishing and who are putting out multiple books a year. I don't think that it's as represented in the traditional market because I don't think that they can compete with the self -published authors who are killing it. So it's like, do I put in the work and try to become one of those authors who are killing it in the indie world?
SPEAKER_00
00:38:12
And that's probably what I'm going to try to do.
SPEAKER_01
00:38:15
Yeah. Yeah. I love though how you're, you're thinking through this because I was, I've been talking to a couple authors, um, and you've brought up business and marketing and what we have to do. Right. And that's, these are the questions I think once you get a couple of like your baby books out, you know, like, Oh, I just have this idea. And they're coming, like you said, your first one took two months. And like, it's exciting.
SPEAKER_00
00:38:38
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01
00:38:38
And then you get to the point where you're like, Oh, I really need to, like, make this a business.
SPEAKER_00
00:38:45
And
SPEAKER_01
00:38:45
that comes with so many things, like thinking through, what are my next steps? I love how you thought about it for your poetry book as well, like, marketing wise, okay, maybe I only focus on love. And that's an easier. or it's not only just that it's easier to sell, it's easier for readers to understand what they're picking up, right?
SPEAKER_01
00:39:03
Like that's
SPEAKER_00
00:39:03
really what marketing
SPEAKER_01
00:39:04
is. So I love how you're already thinking of this because I think we can't talk about it enough in the Indie author world because it's, are you also still working full -time?
SPEAKER_00
00:39:17
I think that's - I actually write full -time. That's
SPEAKER_01
00:39:20
amazing. Oh, I love that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01
00:39:23
But still, you gotta keep, that's even more pressure, I feel like you have to make a dollar to write, right? So there's a lot more to it. And do you think also just with like, I've read a couple stories of indie authors where they do put out four or five, six, seven books a year and then all of a sudden you stop hearing from them. And most of them it's because they hit a wall and they just like mentally and physically they just couldn't continue. Because I do think it's a lot to ask of people, right? So do you think that this time that you've had with yourself, like I went through therapy like four years ago, sometimes I think about going back just for kicks to escape my children
SPEAKER_01
00:40:11
and their homework, basically. But do you think that it will change the way that you approach writing and how how much writing you do or how much how you approach business and how much business you do or like structure your day things like that.
SPEAKER_00
00:40:29
Yeah and it's something that I've been thinking about for a while now you know I like there's a there's a mafia romance writer who's one of the best. She's incredible. She puts out probably at least five books a year. And I reached out to her at one point. I was like, how, how long does it take you to write a book? And, you know, and she told me, I want to say maybe a month. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And her books are full length. I mean, they're going to be 300 plus print pages. So they're not just short novellas. And I've read a lot of them and they do have good world development and, you know, it's not just a little, you know, nothing book basically. And so, but I know that I cannot do that, like for me, I probably will spend at least a month, you know, planning a book, you know, planning a book, getting to know my characters, building the world. I'm a very in -depth planner. Not like every chapter is planned out, but I have to fully engross myself in the world before I start writing that first chapter. And actually, physically writing, I would say I can probably only get... There have been days where I've written 6 ,000 words, but that's towards the end of a book where I'm just trying to finish. That's like two chapters in one. So typically for me, it's going to be a 3 ,000 words or less a day. And when you're talking about books that are, let's just roughly say a hundred thousand words. I mean, my longest book is closer to 130 ,000, but let's just say roughly a hundred thousand words, you know, I mean, and let's say you're working five days a week, you know, because I'm, I'm sorry, no one should be working every single day now. So it's like, it's gonna take you months to write that. And then you have to factor in your editing, which if you're working with an editor, you know, that minimum, minimum two weeks, but more realistic is going to be a month. And that's if you have booked in advance, right? I was just going to say
SPEAKER_01
00:42:55
that's when like they can pick up the book. I'm waiting.
SPEAKER_00
00:42:58
Right. I got a spot
SPEAKER_01
00:43:00
in January.
SPEAKER_01
00:43:01
Like, and you can't change that, right? You could go look for another editor, but yeah,
SPEAKER_00
00:43:05
just
SPEAKER_01
00:43:05
factoring all that in.
SPEAKER_00
00:43:07
So, and like for me, you know, I work with the same editor with pretty much every book. And so I'll reach out when I get, you know, maybe halfway through the book or two thirds of the way through the book to go ahead and, and book based off of when I think I'm going to finish. Um, now a lot of indie authors will edit their own books and that's, you know, I personally can't do that, but I know that that one saves money and it might save time. I don't know if it actually saves time, but needless to say, there things that other authors do that I don't think work for me. So, but I've thought about, you know, to be more successful as an indie author, it's like I've had this debate of like, okay, should I write shorter books to be able to put more books out sooner? Should I put less planning time, should I do less to put out more? But then I'm like, can I really do that? Because I know if I have spent the time coming up with these characters and this world that I have fallen in love with because I have to be in love with it to spend that amount of time on it.
SPEAKER_00
00:44:20
If I've done that, I want to do it the best that I possibly can. And so my best is probably going to be an average of three to four months writing time. And then of course, there's going to be the additional months that are going to be, you know, editing and also because I'm a newer author, And I have less than 3 ,000 followers on Instagram to put this in a perspective. So I'm a newer author. So for me, it's important to have lead up time to a book launch, to get early reviews and get the marketing and do things like this. Whereas the author that I was mentioning before who puts out so many books a year, she's got 10 ,000 plus followers. All of her posts are gonna get an average of several hundred likes. So for her, she doesn't really do free orders. She will write a book within a month, edit it and put it out the next month. And, and yeah, and, and people buy it, you know, and they're waiting for it, right. Yeah. It's just a built in. It's, it's just amazing. And I would love to be like that one day. I just don't see myself able to put it out as quickly.
SPEAKER_00
00:45:35
But the people who have stuck with me from the beginning, they have stuck with me because they love my storytelling and they love the amount of effort that goes into my books. And so I'm just gonna try to remain hopeful that more and more people will see that over the years. And hopefully one day I'll be at a place where even if I'm putting out one to two books a year, Like, they're going to support me and love my work for what it is. Right.
SPEAKER_01
00:46:09
I love that. And I think that is what most indie authors need to hear is it is kind of that marathon idea instead of race. You know, it's hard not to, but we really shouldn't compare ourselves to people who are in a different place, who have been around longer, or whatever is different, right? Like
SPEAKER_00
00:46:32
they're
SPEAKER_01
00:46:33
able to do that. I'm also, I'm a much slower writer than ideas that can lightning flash into my head. You know, like, I have notes on all the books that I have thought about, but not quite written. But I think whether you're planning it, or whether you dive in, I did an experiment and dove in right away and that didn't work out either because things
SPEAKER_01
00:46:56
Happened along the writing line and I had to go back and toss them, you know So yeah, that time's gonna be needed no matter what and I think Your advice is amazing because what people need to do is find their way of doing it and then constantly run the mind themselves That's great for them But this is my way and like you said the readers are looking for what for your voice for your comfort zone for your love of the characters.
SPEAKER_00
00:47:27
And
SPEAKER_01
00:47:28
it's not really worth exchanging that right just to get a book out quicker.
SPEAKER_00
00:47:33
Yeah. And, and when you think about it, it's like, you know, There are so many authors and so many books, especially in a sub -genre like mafia romance. Even if I were to scale back what I do and publish multiple books a year, which by the way, I don't think would be sustainable for me. So even if I were to do that though, let's say I were to have to take a break and not put out a book as often or only go back to only one book a year. There are so many authors in that field that I don't even know if my readers would miss me because they would have so many other people fulfilling that need, especially if I'm essentially shrinking
SPEAKER_00
00:48:28
my storytelling ability to fit on a tighter schedule. My books are no more unique than the next person's. right but if I continue to remain true to myself you know I know that I have a unique storytelling ability so that's what I have readers a year later you know when the poetry collection was announced they were like oh I was hoping it would be like you know something to do with your mafia book or whatever and it's been a year since that book came out so the fact that they're still in love with that book means a lot to me.
SPEAKER_01
00:49:08
Yeah, yeah. And I love that they are loyal to you and this sort of gives other authors listening permission that you can always come back, right? Like maybe this side project or this very personal project is something needed right now, but that they're always there. Your readers are always looking for another book, right? So whatever book you dive into next, you're going to come out with it. It's going to be great. You're to love it. And your readers are gonna be like, great.
SPEAKER_00
00:49:36
Yeah. Another one
SPEAKER_01
00:49:37
to read.
SPEAKER_00
00:49:38
And there is a difference, I think, between readers who want what you're writing and readers who want a book by you. And so for me, I truly feel connected to the readers who want a book that's by me, the people who are going to read my work, regardless of what it is. Those are your true readers. And so, you know, I'm really thankful for them. And I think that, you know, as long as you're true to yourself, you will find those people.
SPEAKER_01
00:50:13
Yes, yes. And I do think you're right, because those are the going to be the readers that are going to pick up the poetry book as well, because they want to know more about you as an author. And romance readers are mostly women, right? At least a good chunk of them. right? So I'm sure that there will be lots of poems all of us can relate to as it goes with dating, love, loss, right? All of those things. So I think you're right to focus on the readers who want to read it because you wrote it more than anything. Because yeah, there's a lot of every genre out there. There are a lot of books. So this podcast is recorded a bit earlier, but It's going out January 9th. Can you tell us, is your book out? Can people find it?
SPEAKER_01
00:51:03
It's the new year, 2024. If they want to start it with some romance and some poetry, where can they go?
SPEAKER_00
00:51:11
Yes, so by the time this interview comes out, I still have Love to Give, will be available to purchase on Amazon, again by Emily A. Myers. It would have just come out on January 4th and it's gonna be the perfect way to start your new year if you're interested in healing some past heartbreak or you're going through a dating journey or you need help figuring out what kind of love you want in your life. I wrote this book basically over the span of an entire year and so I think it's the perfect way to start your new year. And if you're interested in any sort of romantic suspense or Mafia Romance, you will find that on Amazon as well.
SPEAKER_01
00:51:58
Under Emily A. Myers as well?
SPEAKER_00
00:52:00
Yes. Okay,
SPEAKER_01
00:52:01
so you stuck with your name. You want people to know you as you.
SPEAKER_00
00:52:05
Yes,
SPEAKER_00
00:52:06
I'm gonna be old fashioned in that way and I'm gonna own every word that I say. That's awesome,
SPEAKER_01
00:52:12
I love that, I love it. Well, thank you so much, Emily, for coming on. We will have the links in the show notes below for everyone to go out and start your new year with a book of poetry. I think this is great. I think even if you're not going to read it, it's another creative way to inspire you as you dive into your own writing. So thank you so much, Emily, for coming and talking to us today.
SPEAKER_00
00:52:35
Thank you.