Ashutosh Tiwari - Promoting Entrepreneurship, Intrapreneurship and Societal Change in Nepal

That gave me my life's purpose in so many ways, in the sense that, you know, I decided from that time on, I decided that I wanted to be useful to others, I wanted to be of benefit to others, I wanted to help others. And I think one of my life's goals is basically when I die, I want to be completely used up, you know, like a finished candle.

Our featured speaker today is the founder at Safehold Partners and a co -founder of Entrepreneurs for Nepal, specializing in economic, private sector, and entrepreneurship development.

Ashu, it's a great honor to have you with us today. Thanks so much for making time to share your journey with us.

Happy to be here, Nancy and Daniel.

So I was wondering if you could just sort of lead off telling us about some of your experience growing up and maybe about some of the earlier Influences in your life that kind of shaped your your journey professionally and personally. Sure

Well, I was born in Nepal, Kathmandu, Nepal. I grew up in a very large Household with both sets of grandparents from my mother's side as well as from my father's side uncles, cousins, and so forth. So it was a very large family. And one advantage of growing up in such a large family was you had to negotiate, you had to argue, you had to debate. You know, you never ran out of playmates when playing out in the field.

So it was a very boisterous, noisy, loud, debate -oriented, discussion -oriented, achievement -oriented large family in Kathmandu, actually. Kathmandu in the late 70s, early 80s was more like a kind of, you know, medieval village, if you will, and not much traffic, a lot of rice paddy fields, very verdant in so many ways. So I had a great time growing up in Kathmandu. I went to a Jesuit high school run by the Jesuit priests from Cincinnati, Ohio, actually, in Nepal. So that school gave me a really good foundation in terms of, you know, character, in terms of English language, in terms of my love for the sciences, math, technical stuff, as well as, you know, we had a lot of extracurriculars, elocution, debating, writing, and so forth. So I was sort of like an all -around good student, if you will.

At the end of high school, I got a scholarship to go to the U .S. for college. I went there, had a wonderful time in the U .S. Altogether, I spent seven years in the U .S., and after finishing my degrees, I returned back to Nepal, partly for family reasons, because my father was not doing very well at the time. I had some family issues that needed to be taken care of. So I came back and spent some time with the family.

And then I went off to far western Nepal, in rural Nepal, because at the time I had some friends there starting a social movement. And this particular social movement was about social justice. At that time, they were fighting to emancipate up to 200 ,000 bonded agricultural laborers from years of, you know, dead bondage, sort of like a slavery like system, if you will, in the agricultural sector, a system that had been entrenched for many, many, know, for decades actually. So these friends of mine, activists, they needed help, some sort of a strategic help. Somebody who could be there on Man Friday, if you will. Somebody who could do the meeting minutes. Somebody who could put together press notes. Somebody who could run around, meet with journalists, give them talking points and help them strategize how to deal with politicians, policymakers, and so forth. So they could pass their agenda of freeing up, you know, 200 ,000 bonded agricultural laborers. So I became a social activist for about two years. I did that. I really enjoyed it. It was almost a low -paid sort of a job, but really running high in adrenaline.

And that gave me my life's purpose in so many ways, in the sense that I decided from that time on, I decided that I wanted to be useful to others. I wanted to be of benefit to others. I wanted to help others. And I think one of my life's goals is basically, when I die, I want to be completely used up, like a finished candle, right? You know, I want to help people and also, And I've benefited a lot by being helped by other people. I have had excellent mentors, advisors, professors who wrote recommendations for me, colleagues who helped me achieve success, career success, friends and family members who are very enthusiastic about my success. They cheered me on and all that. And I've benefited from all that. And I think I'm in a position to help others. I was, am, and will be. And I want to do that more. So that really guides my sense

of what I

am in the sense that I'm here to assist others

and that ethos is very, very strong for me. Yeah, and then, you know, after my social activist days were over, I moved on to work for the Germans in Kathmandu. They were doing a lot of small business advising work. I did that for about three years in Kathmandu. And then I was hired to do something similar in Dhaka, Bangladesh, where I was there for three and a half years working for International Finance Corporation, which is the private sector arm of the World Bank. And then I enjoyed that as well. And after finishing up at IFC, I moved back to Nepal and was given a challenge to run a media company. This media company was not doing very well. It had militant labor union problems. It had, you know, almost 200 staff members. It was bleeding money. It was about to be closed down. But a very prestigious media company, you know, a media company that was important for Nepal's democracy, freedom of speech and so forth. But, you know, but not doing financially very well. Prior to that job, I had no experience running a company. So it was like, you know, kind of a baptism by fire, if you will. I had to rule a lot. Something like, you know, what does a CEO do? How does a CEO deal with the board? How does a CEO deal with militant labor unions? You know, that sort of stuff. But on the whole, again, I had a great board. I had great colleagues. I was able to, you know, solve the labor union issues. And they were very politically motivated at time. But I had a lot of help actually. So had it been only my work, I probably wouldn't have done a great job. But then, you know, with help from so many people, colleagues, board members, and the community at large, you know, the media community, and certain politicians and policy makers, everything came together, that work really went well. I also decided that, you know, even though I like to write, and I am a consumer of media, I didn't like to work in the media industry per se, because it was mostly about going out collecting ads from multinationals, from big companies and so forth. And I hated asking for ads from companies actually. So the challenge was done and you know I had a great time. It really helped me

grow as a manager, as a manager of people, manager of resources, manager of results if you will. From there on I moved to a nonprofit actually. This particular nonprofit you know had its headquarters in London. Its name is WaterAid, WaterAid Nepal. Through that nonprofit I led a team of about 25 people, public health experts, water engineers, sanitation experts, people who are good in public advocacy and so forth. So basically, you know, we did a lot of sanitation related work going around Nepal, tying up with other agencies such as UNICEF, SNB and other UN agencies to make sure that, you know, Nepal at that time was not what we call open defecation free because there were not toilets for every household. So we went around, you know, raised funds to build toilets for villages, because what happens is that in an open defecation situation, there are health problems, there are brain development issues, there are so many other social, cultural, and negative issues. So those need to be addressed. I was running WaterAid at the time, WaterAid Nepal, and we played some role in alleviating some of those problems by raising funds, by working with villagers, working with communities, and with a focus on three groups of people. The first group people were people with disabilities because they have a hard time accessing toilets and water facilities so we focused on them. We also focused on school -going girls because like they used to miss, sorry, they still miss I suppose four days or five days of school every month because of menstruation and they didn't have access to water at school, no decent toilet and so forth so we worked on that as well, raised that as a big issue socially. And the third group were elderly and also marginalized communities. The caste system sometimes works in, well often works in devious ways and people at the lowest end of the caste system, they are considered to be quote -unquote dirty and not given toilet facilities, water facilities and so forth. So we did a work to ward off people's belief around that set of issues and wanted to sort of, you know, preserve the importance of human dignity at the center of everything we did at WaterAid. So WaterAid was great. I worked there for four and a half years, worked very closely with the government, policymakers, engineers and other professionals. I was like a professional who went into water without knowing not much about water and sanitation, but I was able to learn. I able to absorb a lot of information. I was able to formulate a new way of doing certain work. I was helpful, useful, and successful at the same time. So, partly because of luck, partly because of my own skill,

I suppose, but things worked out. Let's put it that way. And from WaterAid, I moved on to a private company. Private company was a family -run company. It's called Serpa Adventure Gear. It is like Nepal's answer to Patagonia or North Face, you know, one of those big brands, so to speak. This company, you know, was founded by Mr. Sherpa. He wanted to hand the company over to his son, but he had some issues with factories, with local procurement, with local government, so on and so forth. So he needed an outside CEO to come in, clean up the system, if you will,

and

also help sort of like, you know, work with his son to make sure that the handover from one generation to another generation would go smoothly. Again, I knew nothing about clothing business from the apparel business, nothing about outdoor gear and so forth. So I jumped in. Again, I wanted to learn. I realized that, you know, my value add would be helping

with the

supply chain issues because, you know, international commerce is all about supply chain. If you can make it efficient within a company, that translates to saving money and making money. So I focused on that. We also work with German buyers, European buyers who are very interested in compliance, factory standards, and so forth. So, you know, a lot of education from local factories about how their toilets had to be cleaned, how they could not pay their workers, pay decent wages, put in decent lighting, health -related issues and all that.

So a lot of education on that front, I enjoyed that. I a compliance officer, trained her very well so that she could do the reports, she could authenticate all the information that were being sent to us by the factories. And when the third party auditor showed up to audit the factories, everything was in order, honest, verifiable, and so forth. So I enjoyed that part of the job. And basically, engaging with athletes, mountaineers, trekkers, hikers who wanted to try our gear

and sort of like go out in the wilderness, you know. So the company was an educational site for me in the sense that, you know, I was given this opportunity to learn. I tried to make the best use of my time. I learned a lot and I even became a better manager actually. So running a media company, you know, which was more of a turnaround situation. Then moving on to a non -profit, which is more like a social service, but raising funds, you know, deploying those funds, working with local communities. And third was this private sector company, I share Batman Junior, a family -run company,

making sure that, you know, that I was not treating negatively on the family's turf, so to speak, you know, making sure that, you know, those sensitivities were respected. But at the same time, you know, I was doing the work for the company, for the betterment of the company, you know, balancing those different variables. Difficult at times, but I learned a lot, you know, I learned how to balance that over time and I became a better manager, better person as a result. And from Sherpa in 2017, I decided that, you know, it was time to move on because the things that I hired for at Sherpa were pretty much done. I could stay on for another couple years, I suppose, but I wanted to move on and, you know, wanted to do something on my own. And that's when I founded Sokol Partners with three other friends. So, Sokol Partners, you know, initially we thought we would have a fund, but that didn't work out because, you know, I realized that I didn't have a fund. I did have some fundraising background, but not much in terms of, you know, deploying the funds into startups and all that. I had a better background as a mentor, as an advisor, as a trainer, if you will, rather than a fund manager. So I decided, you know, I had to build some track record first. So we started Nepal's first angel investment platform called Supple Angels. And through that, you know, we raised money to fund four startups. Two of which have exited now. So angel investment is still a slow process in Nepal. You know, there are no regulations in place.

I'm in conversation with the regulators, with other private investors, to make sure that, you know, we really have a thriving angel investment scene. And in recent times, we have tied up with Lankan angels in Sri Lanka, with Bangladeshi angels in Bangladesh, and also with some angel investors in Hyderabad, India, and Delhi and other places. And we're now forming a regional angel investment network. Regional in the sense that, you know,

we'll have angel investors from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, and so forth. And looking for ways to, you know, hold regular conferences and invest in each other's startups, if you will, you know. So that has been a great joy because four years ago, I knew nothing about angel investment. I had only read about it in books and, you know, blogs and what have you, but now that we're actually practicing it and figuring out, you know, where the laws are friendly to us, where the laws are not friendly to us, you know, all these have been very educational. Our bread and butter really comes from consulting work. We do what I call operational consulting. You know, having run three major companies in Nepal, I've gathered enough competence, I suppose, in running companies like managing the board, managing human resource, hiring people, you know, training them, developing them, growing them, and also, you know, financial best practices. And many companies don't know that, you know, when the new CEO comes in, you know, he or she usually has a hard time doing so many things, too many balls up in the air. But having someone like me and my team, I suppose, you know, a team that I trained under me really gives assurance to many CEOs and organization leaders because, you I've seen those, I've seen variants, you know, variants of what they're undergoing in other companies. So I can come in with ideas and basically act as a coach for the CEO, for the senior management team. And this has gone very well, actually, because in Nepal, many companies still need to harness productivity gains, efficiency gains. We

are

not on the innovation frontier yet. We are not on the, you know, effectiveness frontier yet, so to speak. But productivity gains and efficiency gains are still to be harnessed. And that's where we bring a lot of value to our clients. And we're happy about that. And the third thing we do is, you know, we also work with nonprofits. We don't charge them money. We basically give them a pro bono consulting work so that you know they can put together a board, they can raise funds, they can sort of like do their work more effectively because I have always had a soft corner for nonprofits. I admire what they do under trying circumstances and I think that you know they do not have access to

first -rate advice, first -rate you know sort of private sector kind of approach but given the right leadership in nonprofits I think they can do wonders and I think a part of my time I try to spend with nonprofits really helping them develop their capabilities. In 2007, just to circle back to 2007, some friends and I, we started what we call, what we still call actually Entrepreneurs for Nepal. It's a Facebook group that now has more than 100 ,000 members. It's a very active group. Through that Entrepreneurs for Nepal, even though I had day job as a media CEO, as a water aid person and service person, this Entrepreneurs for Nepal was my weekend gig, if you will. I used to meet people, entrepreneurs for coffee at a cafe, and we would go over their business plan, help them network with other people, help them raise funds. Basically act as a, you know, pro bono friend, if you will, you know, somebody charging money, but really getting a

sense of the entrepreneurial scene, really feeding off the energy and also finding ways to be useful to them, to help, to be helpful to them and so forth. And that went on really, really well. I really enjoyed that. We used to run a training camp. We used to provide fundraising tips to entrepreneurs and

that

went on from 2007 till 2013 -14. After

that,

I got busy with WaterAid and others. One of my other friends sort of like, you know, took that work further and further. And now we have a thriving community and many companies have come out of Entrepreneurship Hub, other consulting companies, as well as tech startups and so forth. So it's really great to see, you know, Nepali entrepreneurial ecosystem evolving from what we call small business, like beauty parlors, hair cutting salons, clothing stores, from that to tech startups, what Dilal calls, you know, basically ideas, idea -driven enterprises, basically. So that's been a really gratifying thing for me to see. So I'll stop here. I've been I guess I've been going on and on. No,

that sounds really amazing. That's why I never stop

you. It's a journey, right? It's really inspiring for us to know that journey and I listened to everything you said and I really, let's say I'm probably like much less experienced than you, but I experienced some of what you have experience. Based on that and working in different kind of markets, I also work with media, I also work with fashion. It's been pretty amazing to be jumping from market to market. But I really want to ask you because one of the things that inspire me a lot to work with entrepreneurship is that I'm from Brazil and we have a lot of inequity here. We have different kind of social situations and it's really like you have a lot of very qualified people, people with a lot of cultural access and others that they don't have that much but they have the entrepreneurial spirit, they want to create their own business, they wanted to change their lives through entrepreneurship. So how do you see entrepreneurship as a engine or as a way to get better, let's say make things better for people that have less access to things. You said that you work with different kinds of people as a mentor, as a consultant. How do you see entrepreneurship as a way to improve people's lives and to give more opportunities?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I basically see entrepreneurship as a way of solving problems. So entrepreneurship, you know, I see it as a as a mindset. You see a problem, whether it's in the arts, let's say, whether it's in the sports sector, whether it's in, you know, environmental sector, what have you.

So you see these problems and you bring an entrepreneurial mindset to that. Basically, entrepreneurial mindset is, you OK, given this problem, what resources am I going to bring to this? How do I sequence my activities? How do I do the version one of anything, a solution, right? And once a version one is there, how can I improve on that, iterate and go on to version two, version three? How can I now, you know, get more buy in from other people, my stakeholders and so forth?

So basically, the entrepreneurial mindset, it doesn't matter whether you are running a non -profit, for -profit or government agency, the entrepreneurial mindset is always about solving problems, actually. Solving problems, which in effect really means helping people, actually. So helping people comes second, but solving problems comes first. So whenever I advise entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs, I tell them it's not about making money. Money is the reward at the end, actually. But if you focus on the end goal from day one, maybe that may happen, that may not happen, we don't know. but let's enjoy the process, let's focus on the process, the process of thinking things through, process of putting things together, process of trying things out, process of failing, and then understanding why you failed, right? That's the process I really try to instill, you know, the discipline of the process because sometimes, you know, we are so enamored of the results, the end goal. It's like trying to climb a mountain but always looking at the top but not looking at the step right in front of you, you know, basically. So I would say that, you know, I see entrepreneurship as a very powerful, effective tool to address social inequities, environmental problems, and problems that are too big for any one of us to solve. That's how I see entrepreneurship as something of value to me and also to people I advise.

That's a perfect answer. It's more than I expected, actually. All that you said, we can all agree on that. And also, you talked about people. Not many people speak like that. you're solving problems people have, you cannot go away from that. At the same time, your answer is so complete in that sense that it's perfect. So thanks so much for giving us this perspective. It's really awesome.

Yeah, and I think the group, if I can say, probably wholeheartedly agrees with you on that perspective

in your definition of entrepreneurship. We actually have a question from Andrew that I want to read for you. He said some of us have may received some Sherpa adventure wear and he wanted to ask you how your prior experiences helped you with your current role and what else have you had to learn on the fly as you launched into this new age of angel investing? What do you continue to learn about and in which areas?

I look back upon my Sherpa days with fondness because we were dealing with international buyers, international customers all the time. And the American buyers, American customers, the big like REI and so forth, the big companies, right, they wanted their shipment on time without any question. It didn't matter whether there was an earthquake in Nepal or shipping lines were disrupted and all that. They just didn't care. It was all about punctuality, punctuality, punctuality, otherwise they would find us. So I learned the importance of, you know, really planning. You know, I joke that, you know, in Nepal, not only do we need plan B, we have to use all the letters of

out of it, all the way to the set, you know what I mean? Otherwise, you cannot make any plan, you know. So, yeah, so it really, you know, that working with very big American buyers really put me and my team on our toes. We had to at least ship the stuff, you know, at least a week early so that, you know, nothing untoward happens to the shipment and so forth, so that was very important. But the European buyers really focus on the quality, the other issues such as, you know, who made this jacket? And how much were they paid? And what happens when they earn an income? You will they spend that money on their children's nutrition, children's education? How are they better off having this job, you know, so that we buy these jackets from you? But what happens to all the money? So basically, you know, unraveling all that and trying to figure out, you know, how that money stream works was also an educational experience for me. So I learned all these things other than the standard managing, you know, supply chain and so forth. So these were like quite revelation for me. And they also allowed me to work with a diverse set of international customers, national customers, and so forth. When I moved to angel investment, it was more like, you know, my credibility was established up to a point, but I still had to use other people's money to get things going. So, you know, I learned the importance of communication. Communication was very, very important, you know, and also giving people bad news, saying that, you know, look, we really messed up this time. The reason we messed up was this. But you know what? It's not going to happen again. We're really sorry about

that we will make amends for this in this manner. Is that agreeable to you? You and

they may shout and they

may be angry but at least they know that you're telling the truth. So really first of all making fewer mistakes but when you do go off you know not give surprises to your customers to your angel investors and so forth you know. So basically those are some of the lessons that really transitioned well for me to move into angel investment actually and also angel investment is mostly about you know telling them about your doubts as well saying that you know I'm not 100 % sure, but I believe the probability is in the positive direction. So basically telling them, but if you want 90 % certainty, maybe this is not for you. If you want 70, 60 % certainty, maybe we can talk further. So when we speak like that in tentative terms, investors are reassured. They know that we're not trying to come across as super confident people with all the answers and all that. And some of them will drop out, but most will stick around. At least they see that you are learning as you go along and also you are open with your vulnerabilities and you are also willing to question your own thinking and all that. Once they see that, they are more likely to co -create the investment process with you, you and that's what I've learned. I hadn't really thought of that before, but now that, you know, Andrew's question pushes me to think, and you know, angel investors, you know, the good ones, they want to co -create the investment process with you, which results in your added learning for both sides. So that's what I've learned and that's how I've transitioned from Sherpa to, you know, Safal. Wow.

That's so cool. I mean, it's so perfect for the question that I'm going to ask now because I didn't change because of your answer, but it's just so perfect that it comes along with this.

I wanted to ask you, because as an entrepreneur, I have my own company for years and, you know, I've been to angel investment events and I participated in them as a person that is interested in investing and also on getting funds for my own company. So I wanted to ask you, what do you look, you talked about risk, of course, angel investments are dealing with, angel investors are dealing with risk all the time, right? And the risk is a big part of entrepreneurship in general. But how do you choose, let's say, what do you see? And I think that's a good question for everyone involved because there's a lot of entrepreneurs here too. Okay, I'm an entrepreneur. So what do you look at me? And you see if I'm a good founder, a good leader. What do you look for? I know that you're a good kind of person of negotiation and you're good with entrepreneurship. So, how do you project this experience you had as an entrepreneur, as a person of mentorship? How do you see the qualities of an entrepreneur in that person that you're going to invest? Because people think the investors are looking for companies with IP, with innovative products or with some kind of patent. But what I learned, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Android Investor looks also for people and most of the time they are looking more of the team and the founders so how do you see that what what are the best characteristics of the team of the people there are the founders so that's you know the question I want to ask yeah

so I think you know agile investment is the riskiest of all investment because you know basically we're dealing with a very baby company and the chances of that baby company dying are very very high so we all know

that. So, risk there is, you know, it's quite different from investing in a larger company and so forth. That being the case, I usually look for, you know, a drive for execution, getting things done. I think that mentality is very important. First of all, the first thing I would look for is how passionate you are about the problem. Passionate about the problem in the sense that, you know, how driven are you to solve that problem, right? And what are you thinking, thought process around that. So, that's number one. Number two is that, you know, I would like to see some evidence of execution. It doesn't matter, you know, even without much resource, you know, what have you done so far? You know, maybe if you have gotten, you know, kind of a couple desks and got things started, building a prototype, you know,

I like

that. So I look for evidence of execution. That's very, very important because we are looking for, you know, people who can execute and people who can execute at scale. So those are the other things that I look for. But, you know, before we go to execution at scale, I really look for execution ability, at least evidence of that. It doesn't have to be big execution right off the bat. It could be like small execution steps and the person should be able to say you know we didn't have this but you know what we sort of like put together this and now it's working we have a something working model this is our workspace this is just the mattress we're slipping on it we're doing recording whatever the execution part is

very we can say that you look for doers people that do stuff that make things happen that is correct

they have a sense of the problem and they are doers and they're also adaptable in the same time you know they learn from their mistakes very quickly they can explain saying you know I thought it would happen you know what that didn't happen, I threw out X, now I'm into Y. Let's see whether this works or not.

That agility

of mine. The ones that deliver. But when you come to personal traits, do you look for something like good leader, talks well, good presentation? There's anything beyond like just the work you're doing or it's just, we did this, we achieved this, we create a prototype, we improved it. How do you see also like the personal traits or the soft skills?

I used to believe that personal traits were important, but now I put less emphasis on them. I mean, those are nice to have, basically, right? But I would look for, you know, some unfakeable characteristics, you know, something like persistence, drive, track record of their doings, executing something on some level. People are always nice and, you they speak fluently and all that. I've learned to discount those traits over time, you know. Not that I'm opposed to them, I still like them, but I would like to see, you know, what have you done with what you have, as opposed to,

know what are we going to do all right

yeah yeah that makes sense you can't fake that you did something right but you can't fake that you're a good person you're nice or you're you can talk very well on a presentation on a pitch but you can be a terrible leader if you're a good leader things will happen you're going to do stuff you're going to prototype you're going to create something but if you're not a good leader it's easy to see that way that's the perfect answer for me because never thought about it that way. So one

point I would make is being adaptable meaning that you know you don't have to be a good leader right off the bat but if you are willing to be coached you know open to feedback open to adapt adaptation and all that you know you are going to be a better leader six months you know one year down the road actually. So we also look for people who grow with us in the sense that you know as long as they have the basic drive and execution abilities you know they

people can

grow and grow to a better leader. So I don't expect people to come pre -packaged pre -installed all ready to go but more like you know they have the kernel of good unfakeable characteristics one or two or three four whatever and the rest can be built up over

time. Yeah that makes sense we have expression here in Brazil for that actually we say that they have a shine on the eyes it's just the thing that you have you know you just look at it and you want to do it and that's it the rest you learn if you're open to learn right you don't have to be like if the person's like thinks they're already perfect they can't grow so that's that's the worst

Well, that's a perfect question. Yeah, I'm going to pass to Nancy now.

Yeah, that was such a great question, Daniel. Thank you so much. And thanks for the great answer, Ashu. So, Ashu, I know you've had a long career working in both Nepal and Bangladesh. And I was wondering if you could talk to us a bit about some of the learning curve in your international business experience.

Yeah, my learning curve in the international business is that, you know, international commerce moves very, very People are very, you know, they work on punishing schedules and the word is the bond in the sense that, you know, you say that you deliver X and you have to deliver, otherwise they move on, right? It's very, very fast -paced and all that. And I think in Nepal, you know, we do not have that sense of urgency about many things and many Nepali businesses have a hard time coping with international demands because, you know, culturally, we are much more relaxed, we're much more, you know, oh, it'll happen tomorrow, it'll happen tomorrow, that kind of culture. It wasn't a shock to me because I was used to that when I was a student in the US and all that,

but getting everybody else, you know, motivated, the factory workers, the factory owners, the supply chain people, you know, the logistics people, you know, telling them that, you know, even though we are shipping on Monday, we have to get everything in place by Thursday, Thursday prior to that Monday, right, basically. Getting those elements in place was quite difficult for me. And initially, you know, they didn't understand, you know, if it's going to be shipped on Monday, we can get ready by Monday morning, you know, which wasn't going to be the case. But anyway, so really motivating them and saying that, you know, if we ship things on time, you know, there's more money for all of us. There's happiness all around and all that. So I didn't realize how much work I needed to do. Persuading people, motivating them, and getting them to be on my side, you know, understanding their perspectives, but at the same time, you helping them see the client's perspective, the customer's perspective, right? All that was a lot of soft -skill work, if you will. I had to do a lot of, you know, it was basically showing up, having a conversation, and helping them, you know, unblock some of the constraints in their systems, you know. Maybe they had worker shortages, maybe they had, you know, machines that were malfunctioning and all that. And really helping them solve their problems so that they could then raise productivity and their efficiency so that, you know, things will be fine on the client side. So I think doing all this, what I call the innards of running not only my company but also other people's company and making sure that you know we also are up nice and fine for the clients. That was something I hadn't really thought much about before. Sherpa you know really forced me to come to terms with that and initially it was difficult but over time you know we managed this kind of squeak by you know I mean the client didn't see

the the sausage making you know that went behind the curtain if you will that was the learning curve for me. The second thing was cultural differences. Bangladesh you know, was a different culture from, is a different culture from Nepal. Somewhat similar in certain ways but again different, you know, in Bangladesh there's more people, more competition, more raw, a lot of competition, sort of like, you know, very hungry to succeed actually because in terms of landmass Nepal is comparable to Bangladesh just in terms of landmass, land size, right? But population -wise, you Bangladesh is six times more so that breeds its own sense of, you know, insecurity, competition, hunger and so forth which Nepal doesn't have. So, you know, again, I had some good, ambitious, driven Bangladeshi friends. So I was in good company, but I learned a lot from them. And, you know, I realized that, you know, having that sense of urgency, sense of speed was also important for me and for my own business. And I tried to bring some of that into the companies or organizations I ran in Nepal. And I still run Etcetera, basically. So, yeah. So those are some of the lessons that I picked up from Bangladesh and Nepal and also from the U .S. is always about the deadlines. Basically, you whether you are turning in a paper or, you know, doing something, deadlines, deadlines. Deadlines can be extended, I suppose, but then people look at you differently, you know, if you keep on extending the deadlines. So,

that was

one lesson. So, again, the whole point of, you know, bringing deadlines, speed, urgency, ambition, drive, and syncing well with being in sync with the international commerce, you know. So, those are some of the elements that my international jobs have given me to sort of, like, you know, help me survive and thrive in

Nepal, I Yeah. Wow. That's so cool. I mean, I have a similar experience here in my company. We look so much at deadlines there, but it's not that available here in Brazil.

So they look a lot to the strategy and to, you conversations and stuff. But anyways, it's a good way to have this international experience so you can work with all of them. I had a question, but I'm actually, you're going to take the freedom of poetry here. And I'm going to merge that with Andrew's question. I was about to ask, what's the most exciting stage of a startup in your opinion? But I know that you're an angel investor, so probably like the beginning was one of the most interesting ones. But taking this freedom, Andrew, just ask here, what advice today's Eshu give to Eshu the first day you started in your entrepreneurship journey? So we're talking about start. So what do you think about it?

Yeah, I mean, I think in the beginning I was impatient. I didn't listen to people. I had more answers than questions. You know, now I would listen to people more. Just listen, outlisten them, if you will, you know, because if you just listen to people, they tell you things that would not normally cross your mind, right? So listening has become much more important. Really asking open -ended questions rather than supplying answers. Because as an angel investor, you know, I realized that there are so many things I just don't know and I don't want to make a decision than just on the fly.

So I have to ask questions,

and I have to

ask questions in a way it leads to some sort of a structure, right? I'm trying to figure out how does this thing work? What does it do? Who does it do it for? And how does it pay for itself? You know, if investors put in money, how do they know that it's doing well? So basically, you know, again, basically breaking the thinking down to the constituents part, if you will, and really rebuilding that up

and to understand, you know, how it's put together and basically asking questions around that, you know, what is the motivation drive and so forth.

So I think I would

ask more questions now. And communications, communications with the investors, with the entrepreneur, and telling them, you know, if you don't know something, you say, I don't know, like, let me find out, get back to you next week or week after or whatever, what have you. So all these things are very, very important. So I guess, you know, in the beginning, I was, I thought I knew everything. In the beginning, I thought, you know, I mean, I needed to supply answers. Otherwise, people don't think me as a smart person, right? So I had appear smart. Now I don't care about those things, you know. I'm basically trying to understand the motivation of entrepreneurs, what problem it solves, why do they want to spend, you know, a year or two years or three years of their life doing this. I'm much more interested in that and I can ask open -ended questions. So I'm much more relaxed about angel investing now than I was, let's say, in the beginning of my career in this when advising entrepreneurs and so forth basically.

And also listening, you

know, it's something that sounds very simple. But I'm amazed when people tell me when I listen, actually, as opposed to my interrupting the conversation all the time, right? So that's something over

time. I don't

think that's simple at all. Listening is really hard, actually. You thought it's all about asking the right questions. It's not having all the answers. So that's the most important thing. And I think most entrepreneurs, most people actually, most professionals, they're trying to show that they know everything, that they study it, that they are qualified for the job. But the truth is for science you have to ask questions so when you're creating a company you have to ask the right questions to get the right answer so it makes all the sense for us and in that sense complementing the questions just a little bit what do you have to say about expectations when you're starting is different or you have the same expectations now or you're more conservative or that's one of the things that I think about starting and the difference that makes now How do you feel about

that? I think I'm much more tolerant of mistakes and errors and failures now than I was before. Before, I was much more worried about failures, mistakes, errors. But now, I have this golden rule, actually, which is something like, as long as people are not dying, as long as you are not losing everything, like all your assets and financial security and whatnot, and as long as you are not losing your reputation for life basically, you like you are behind prisons and what have you. So as long as these

three Chinese walls of risks are taken care of, right, nobody's going to die, you're not going to lose all your assets, you're not going to lose reputation forever. Every other mistake is somewhat negotiable, you know, these are reversible errors perhaps, you and maybe not all of them but most of them are. So I'm much more tolerant of errors and mistakes but I would encourage, you know, and I encourage people to speak much more openly about their mistakes and errors and share that with others so that, you know, we can all become smarter, you know, all at once rather than, know, trying to figure out one mistake at a time, right, rather than doing it at an individual level. So, much more openness about mistakes, errors, and these things happen. And these are mistakes of, you know, these are not mistakes of great significance. They have some significance, but not so much as to, you know, sink the company, so to speak. And the constant communication also uncovers a lot of these mistakes, and that creates a good path for the entrepreneurs and startups to course correct and move ahead, I suppose. That is something I've learned over time. And also, working with investors, assuring them that things are on track and if not, helping them become better board members because they sit on boards and sometimes they want to run the company themselves, telling them that maybe that's not the best way to help the entrepreneur, you

need to take a step back, you have to look at the big picture, the milestones, the goalposts rather than the content of the activities and so forth. So it's a constant umpiring, refereeing, coaching, mentoring, much more of that role and doing it at a level at which I always try to excel in a strive for my best and all that you know and that really keeps me busy as well and that's the best value I can bring to the table I suppose. So this is something I've learned to do over time but that was not in my you know thinking makeup or thinking pattern in the beginning yeah.

I think the way that you describe it's a very mature way to deal with uh, entrepreneurship and certainty and all this stuff. Right. That's pretty cool. Thanks for the answer. It's really amazing.

Well, one of the questions we like to ask is what keeps you going and growing yourself, and I think you addressed that beautifully in your last answer. Spencer, do you have audio to read your question?

Thank you so much for coming on today, Ashu.

As a leader and an engineer myself, I find sometimes that I fall into what can be called analysis paralysis, where I'm looking for more and more information around a decision. This can be right in some technical challenges, but I think in more like human -centric areas, it can cause large and unnecessary delays. How do you know when you have enough information on a topic to make a big decision?

Yeah, I mean, I used to be like that. I'm an information sponge. So basically, I take in much information and I know that it's not enough and I still need to find more. So I think that's the struggle I had. I still have at times. I've learn to learn one thing, that is, you know, things change, context change, you context change and nuances change, time changes, everything. So that way, you know, I do not now hold on to trying to find 100 % of the information or 200 % of the Once I have, like, reasonable amount of information, which is usually 60 -70%, 70 % is usually a good benchmark for me, and then I usually try to do it. Because I now realize that, you know, once you start doing something, more real -time information flows from that, as opposed to, you know, collecting information to start the work, right, basically. So in the writing process, you know, I usually have some ideas about writing. I don't have the full paper in my mind, so to speak, but I start to write a paragraph or two paragraphs, three paragraphs, and more ideas come from the act of writing. So the act of doing, act of writing, creates more ideas. And likewise, in many decisions that I make, I have some direction as to this is where I want to go. Previously, again, analysis paralysis used to kick in. And, you know, I used to It's tying me myself from doing anything. That was a real bummer.

But over time, I realized that, you know, I know just enough to get started. Let me get started. Let me start doing it. Let the real world, the hard, cold reality teach me more because, you know, I cannot fake that. That is like the knowledge that I have to come to grips with. And once I sort of like, you know, switch my mental mode to that frame of understanding, you know, then I can get started, you know? And then the writing flows, then the doing flows, and then the execution really starts,

and education itself starts teaching. So I would, you know, if I were in your shoes, I would say that, you know, I am like that, analysis paralysis kind of a person. That's not helping me much. Let me assume, let me say that, you know, this much is enough to get started. Let me learn more by, you know, getting started as opposed to just collecting information all the time in the first place. So I would try to make that switch. Again, it won't be easy. It'll take some time. You know, it took me something like three to four years to make that switch, you gradual switch. Even today, I still have my bouts of paralysis, if you will, but over time, you know, it can be it can be changed and, you know, and I think,

you know, we are all

we are going to be better for that actually, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yes, perfect, Ashu, it's perfect, perfect, perfect. It's the same thing I think and I do in my life and that helped me so much. We all have analysis paralysis, that's a human thing, right? You start thinking too much and don't execute nothing happens you learn nothing so that's it's not just an answer that you gave us right now but it's actually a very good advice so Wow I'm impressed really

I had to teach that to myself previously I would just stare

at the screen and not write anything I said what if I write 100 words that's it 100 garbage words at least that those got written right and suddenly the 100 garbage words you know open doors for another 200 good words and so on and so So over time, you know, you pick up. But then the switch is not easy. It doesn't happen overnight, you know, but it does happen over time.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's what I usually give advice to some clients. They have some problems starting some projects and they have a lot of questions. So I said, just let's launch it. So we see what the client said, what the users say, what happens. So that's when we actually learn. So we actually do have a question. I think Nirdesh got her audio back. So can you ask now?

Thank you. It was really inspiring to hear your story, Anzoni. Actually, I don't know, I have just one question, I have a few questions. You have gone from MediaCompany to Worder to SerpaGear and now to Enzyme. So is there any approach, like you require really in -depth knowledge in all means, right? So you said that you keep on working and you learn from there, but is there any

the specified approach that we have learned over time to collect information at that speed for that purpose. My other question would be, we are a startup in Nepal right now working with more than 1 .6 million users and more than 30. We are actually piloting in Bangladesh as well, and the VC scene is still in its early phase in Nepal. Does Software Partner help this kind of startup to find network in countries like Bangladesh and India? and how do we connect to solve partners and my last question would be you know there are this Nepalese startup that have this concept that they cannot go global but we think that we can go global as well given our neighbors in India and Bangladesh they are taking this big stride in the startup ecosystem do you see that mindset changing and and what would be your advice to the startups operating out of Nepal which one that want to go you know global that I'm global and business. Thank you.

Sure, so let me take your third question first and then move on to the second question and then to the first question. So the third question is, yes I would say that you know we have to go global and to go global you know we have to adopt the global best practices right basically and in these days of you know MIT bootcamp members, great blogs, courses and so forth you know going global is not difficult in the mindset because we have to be connected to the right people, understand how they work. The global world really focuses on speed, accuracy, execution, value addition, and so forth. So we have to adopt those for our practices. It's if you want to release a movie on Netflix, it has to adhere to certain standards, certain qualities, so on and so forth. Likewise,

a piece of code, piece of writing, what have you. So the audience is global now, the stage is global, we have to have that mindset. You can be local in the sense that you can based in Kathmandu or Bangalore or Timbuktu or what have you but you can see the whole world and your states you know so we have arrived we are in that age now so I think we can certainly look for that but what we cannot do is you know use local practices right and then try to go global that won't happen no basically we have to use local practices as long as they add value to the global practices then the local global harmony will work otherwise just trying to you know go global by doing everything every practice local and so forth won't go so we have to like you know there has to be this mix and match. Certainly doable. And I would encourage more people to think globally, even though they may be rooted locally and so forth.

But it's a lot of work, lot of making sure that the world understands you with the validation and all that. That's important. So that's number three, the answer. Number two, we can certainly connect you with Bangladesh Angels. We have some good friends who run that particular network. They usually have deal flows and deal meetings, usually online. So certainly we can connect you with Nirjor Rahman, who runs that Bangladesh NGO network and a good friend of ours, so certainly can be done. Please shoot me an email and then I will take it from there. And then and

on to the first question, I would say that, you know, I think I'm one of those guys, I just like to learn, you know, I like to, I like the learning process, you know, of anything, right, basically. So learning, again, maybe that's part of, you know, growing up in a large family where I had learned so many things, learn how to cook, learn how to wash my clothes, learn how to, you know, sort of like wash the research, learn how to take care of my younger brothers, so on and so forth. So learning has always been something that is central to me. That is me in the sense that I cannot not learn,

so to

speak, right? So again, when I was at the media company, I had to learn a lot of things. I had to learn how to manage my board, how to be on their good side without being their slaves, so to speak, right? Without giving them the honest bad news,

but at the same time, giving that piece of bad news with solutions that I thought about and so forth. So all these were, you know, part of my learning. And with WaterAid also, you know, I had to learn where I can add value. I wasn't, I'm not a water engineer, I'm not a sanitation specialist, I'm not a public health specialist, but I have to see the connections between these, among these, you know, with different fields and come up with something, some sort of a meta question, a meta theory, a meta connector that sort of unites them all basically so that,

you for the organization. So when I

focused on, you know, working with the disabilities or working with cool girls, helping them with water sanitation issues, working with, you know, marginalized communities, those are some value addition from my side. You know, I could connect the dots. I could see different pieces, you know, just floating about and I could, as the leader of the organization, bring them together. That's what I could do and that's where I added my value and people said, oh that's nice, you know. Now we see why you are our organizational leader. So again, value addition is really important because learning for learning, you know, I'm not a researcher. I don't work in academia. So my learning has to be practical. People have to see that, you know, it's useful to them, it's beneficial to them. Otherwise, you know, what's the point, right? Basically, so because I work with people, that's important. And with Chirpa gear, I mean, like, you know, I'm not a fashion designer, clothing designer, but the supply chain, once I figured out that,

you know, that is the backbone of the company and efficiency brought on in the supply chain, we will have manifold results, good results, you know, that's what I really focused on. So learning ability, applying that learning and not being afraid to ask questions. You basically, usually when you start a new job, your first one week, you people, you ask a lot of questions. You basically preface your questions by saying, you this may be a stupid question, let me ask this to you anyway.

And take a lot of notes. So this is what I've learned. And I've also taught myself a lot of these things. And I will say that in today's world, you know, things are changing so fast. Information, you know, gets out of you so fast, you know. This ability to learn has become, you know, a new skill in itself, actually. It doesn't matter whether you are learning new Excel tricks. And today, I just one or two hours ago, I don't know. I was trying to figure out discord. I've never used this before, you know, I was panicking at one time But I said, okay calm down. I finish this out go to Google and then you know, I downloaded some instruction And then I was there so I was very happy, you again, it's tiny examples

But this willingness to learn ability to learn and when you don't know things asking questions There are people what thousand times smarter than I am and the world is full of such people right at worst They may say, you I cannot help you. That's okay then you go to the next person, you ask questions. And people are usually generous with their answers, generous with their help, and you get things done. So as long as you have the attitude that, I need to figure this out, I need to ask people, I need to do it, that really carries the day

and you can move from media to water, to running a outdoor gear company, to running your own angel investment outfit. And now we're trying to set up a fund. All these sort of things come alive, come well, because you're willing to ask questions, you're not afraid of learning, you are not afraid of asking stupid questions and you're putting it together in service of something which is helping other people, working with people and so forth. It all works very well actually. So I would say that go for it. There is Google, there are online courses, there is such a great community all around us. It's a shame not to take advantage of them for our own learning goal and growth and for our entrepreneurship journey. That's what I would say.

Yeah, thank you for the advice and the answer. Yeah, I think being on learning and as you said asking the right questions and not being afraid to not get answers. So and I think Saffron Angels will play an important role in developing the system of you know startups in Nepal and also I'll also do an email so that we can get connected and also might be find connections with Bangladesh Angels as well and thank you very much for the answer. Yeah,

just about the right question and don't even worry about right questions, just ask questions. Some of those questions will be right, some of them will be not so right. Don't worry, ask questions because asking questions is the only way we can uncover a lot of things about, you know, what other people are thinking, how things are put together and all that. So yeah, I mean, you know, ask questions. Yeah,

definitely. Thank you for the great questions, Nirdesh. I think you also made a really powerful point issue about seeing other people for help. I remind myself at this point as the oldest in a large family myself, that asking other people to help empowers them to have an opportunity to feel good about being a leader. Even if it's not a perfect answer, it's a learning opportunity for them too. So I appreciate your points on that. I want to just make sure that we're okay on time for you because we have run past the hour. Do you have time for a couple more questions? Sure, sure. Absolutely. I'd like to pass to you, Yubesh, to ask his question.

Thank you so much, Esther. I'm from Nepal as well. And it's such a pleasure to be talking

to you on this forum. And such a thanks for your valuable time. And just a few questions earlier about how Spencer emphasized on the aspect of analysis paralysis. I must have been going through that phase as well. And I'm dealing with so much of my entrepreneurial journey in terms of that but what I would like to ask about you would be about the tactical empathy in terms of the negotiation skills with different people, with the different angel investors could be or what's your take on the importance of tactical empathy and then tactical empathy for negotiation skills for entrepreneurs and how do you think about how entrepreneurs would need to think in a longer run because the immediate gratification thing has overthrown the world right now. And what's your take on that aspect as well?

Would love to listen to your insights on that. Thank you so much, Oti.

Okay, so thank you for the question. One thing I've learned over time is that, you know, I like to focus on the process, actually, you know. It doesn't come easily to me. I still struggle. Like, for example, if I have to write something, you know, the process is of writing. Even though it's a garbage writing in the first draft, so to speak, I have to get through the first draft and then edit it, policy it, revise it, so on and so forth. And entrepreneurship is something similar in the sense that, you know, many of us, I guess, we love the final goal, getting awards, getting investors on board and all that, but all that requires really quiet, unglamorous hard work, you know, which is the process actually. So I think, you know, much of my time really goes into telling entrepreneurs that, you know, focus on the process, you know, if you have figured out a good problem, important problem, focus on that. Don't worry about what others are doing, just focus on that and show evidence of your execution skills, show some results, and then we can talk to investors and other people as to how you can scale this up and so on and so

forth. So having something is better than just having a dream, right, basically.

So I think,

and in Nepal, especially in countries like Nepal, I know people are, they get easy stories about Elon Musk or or Warren Buffet or what have you and they think that you know I'm like Elon Musk and this

and

that and that really is usually not not a good way to

do

entrepreneurship because our realities are different we have to be much more rooted to our local context and the process work is very important you know it's very very important and I think most of us forget that and I try to bring the conversation back to the boring topic of conversation process and so forth that's important and with regard to you know investors I would say that you know tell them what do you basically you know if they want 50 % of your company tell them no that can happen but I'm willing to negotiate share that is you know agreeable to you and agreeable to me I don't have a number in mind what do we have in mind and we can negotiate back and forth basically so usually not to see investors as adversaries but investors as you know somebody who can help you but at the same time you know you are not going to be taken advantage of you know basically so you said that you know I'm worried about X Y Z about you about you investors would we have an honest conversation around this right you can have that conversation and I think most genuine empathetic investors would actually welcome that opportunity to have to engage in conversation with you about you know what does it mean for them to invest you know how can they help and what if things go wrong how can they make an exit or find a way to assist you so and so forth actually so always I would say that you know start with good intention on other people's part you know and I used to be very bad at this I used to be suspicious of people, you know, I used to be sort of like, you know, think of, you know, maybe they had, they had bad motivations and all that. But over time we realized that most people are generally good. They have good motivations, good intentions. Maybe their language could need some work and all that. But by and large, you know, if you are willing to sit down and have an honest conversation with them, most people usually respond in kind, you know. They usually get back to you with their answers and all that. But if you feel that, you know, something is off, you can always say, well, thank you very much and never interact with them again. Because world is big enough for us to interact with a large group of people. So I would say that with investor, there is no such thing as tactical negotiation and all that. Basically telling them, you know, for this percentage, for this amount of money, I'm willing to give that percentage of equity. And here is my reasoning, here's my thinking, you know, this is what I'm thinking at the moment. If information changes, I may revise this. But for now, you know, this is what I'm thinking of. If we can play ball with this, let's do that. If not, you know, I'll move on to next investor. So you can be fairly, you know, I wouldn't say blunt, but honest enough to give them an indication of where you are coming from. Because in

negotiation, you confidence plays a part, honesty plays a part. You know, you don't have to be too honest through everything, but just enough honesty to say that, you know, you need investment, but at the same time, you know, you need to have your sense of independence. And I think, again, that comes from practice. And you are always welcome to, you know, come to my office or to, you know, or to hire a coach or a mentor who can give you some practice along these lines, actually, you this is, you know, it requires practice. It doesn't come naturally to most of us. It didn't come naturally to me. I a lot of practice, just like, you know, making my set of mistakes and all that. But I think if you're willing to put in the time, put in the time to do the process, I think, you know, that should be fine. You get better over time. That's what I would say, Yubesh.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was listening to a fair share of knowledge and wisdom alongside your experiences and truly the way we have emphasized on the practices and the open field executions would definitely be meaningful rather than just textbook knowledges and such an amazing time that listening to you. Thanks so much for your time.

And one thing I want to emphasize is that you know I've made my share of mistakes and I still do

you know but I

but I want to learn from my mistake I'm saying what is going on and why am I keep on banging my head against this wall. What's going on? Am I stupid? What am I not seeing, right? What can I do differently? So A, conversation with myself and B, conversation with other people saying, you what am I doing wrong guys? Tell me, help me. And other people tell you things that you haven't thought of. That way again, you learn faster and quicker and you know, become better at

the things. Yeah,

conversations would help us propel ahead with this sort of conversations. And thank you, shout out to the founders which Nancy to answer the leaders, the flag bearers, the entrepreneurs. Thank

you so much. Thanks so much for the answer. Thanks so much for the question. The thing is, with this answer, I was just thinking about it. And we had an investor here some time ago, and I had the opportunity to ask a question about investments and how do they feel about investing in people that they already know, people that are pitching their business randomly, they never met them before. And I had a personal experience with that. I gave a terrible pitch. It wasn't ready enough.

So afterwards, we go to dinner with the investors and we talk a little bit more. And it was totally different because I said, oh, my pitch was terrible and stuff. And the guy said, no, come to talk to us like in three months. You know, we know you're well intended, you're qualified and stuff. So your answer is just so perfect for this mindset that people, intentions matter. people that do matter, you all this thing of being comfortable with who you are and asking the questions and giving and receiving feedback. And I think the most challenging thing, just making a little bit of commentary on your answer, is to find actually people that are sincere and that are telling you the truth. That's the, you know, to receive feedback and good advice or anything in In sense, usually you have to trust these people also. So me, it's not easy to make the filter

because I usually, I'm the one that trusts first and then ask questions later. But I mean, it's a very good thing to have in mind and it was a great answer. You know, we talked about a lot about asking questions. We really wanted to ask you a question and I've been asking questions all the time now, but what is your advice for entrepreneurs, for us, words of wisdom? It could be yours or someone else that you like, that you wanted to share to us as a good advice, as something that we can take from this conversation and take for our lives and our experiences.

Wow, I don't know where to start. I think if we frame our life as being useful to others, you know, and I define others very broadly, that is to be your immediate family, your parents, your spouse, your children, your neighbors, your community, what have you, right? Basically, if you find yourself, you know, I'm going to be useful to other people, I'm going to be beneficial to other people, that really relaxes you a lot, actually. You you are not thinking about yourself. You're thinking about yourself as a vehicle to serve others. It doesn't have to have a religious or moral tone to it, but I think, you know, when you think of yourself being in service to others, broadly defined, I think that gives you a sense of peace of mind, sense of, you know, purpose, sense of meaning, and I think that's one way to live a good life. That's what I think. this framework has really helped me, you know, personally. I to be a very young, agitated, impatient, prone to anger kind of a person in my younger days, my 20s, I would say. Over time,

I realized that, you know, that was not a good approach. People are generally good, find a way to be helpful to them, beneficial to them, useful to them, you know, again, without being their slaves or, you know, without really, you know, kissing their whatever, you know what I mean. So it's more like, you know, being people generally want to work with you, people generally want to with you, people generally want to seek your advice, they want your connections, you know, in a nice way, right? And that usually, you know, A, it fills me with joy, it fills them with joy, and we get something done. And then, and the sphere of influences increases and increases and increases, right? In entrepreneurship, you know, apart from solving world's problem, we're also influencing one another, you know, by our behaviors, by our mindset, by our connections, and so forth. And I think if I were to give any quote unquote words of wisdom, I would say that, you know, If we frame ourselves and frame our life in terms of being of service to others, that opens up a lot of doors, opens up a lot of opportunities, and helps us solve even bigger problems than we can ever imagine. That's

what I think.

You know, that has been true in my life. I don't know whether that translates well for everybody, but I would certainly urge you to try. Give it a try and see what good comes out of it. That's what I would say.

Wow, that's so perfect. I mean, when you think about orders, it's the meaning of life, I think. Yeah, if we apply that, we're going to achieve so much more and be so much more... Yeah, it's like leading by example, right? That's the basics of leadership. So if you lead by example, you're thinking about the orders, you're doing the, you know, executing all the small tasks that you have to make people's life better. So that's the basic thing. Wow, that's so good. Yeah.

Thank you so much. That was such a fantastic answer. Thank you so much, Ashu. We really appreciate your thoughts and everything you shared with us and taught us today. And thank you everyone that was able to join and stay along with us today. We really appreciate your questions and you bring your energy and perspective to today's discussion. Daniel and I and the whole team behind Founders Voyage feel really fortunate to be part of this community with you and for the opportunity to bring you this cooperative learning experience each week. So, Ashu, we hope that you have the opportunity to join us again. And if people would like to continue to connect with you? What is the best way for them to reach out to you?

I think LinkedIn is good. And thank you, Nancy. Thank you, Daniel, for your excellent questions. And thank you, community, for your great questions. It gave me time to think and to reflect on some of my answers. So I've enjoyed the process. I've enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much.

It was our pleasure. Wonderful.

Thank you so much. All right. We hope that you have a great week ahead and we'll definitely stay in touch.

Thank you. Bye -bye.

You've just finished another episode of Founders Voyage, the podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. The team at Founders Voyage wants to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We hope you enjoyed your time with us, and if so, please share this with someone else who might enjoy this podcast. You can also support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and by donating to our Patreon. Outdoor music today is Something for Nothing by Reverend Peyton's Big Dan Band.