Emily Hao - From Vending Machines to Investment

is meant to be a longer journey. So it's definitely a quote that I remind myself to embrace the present because I tend to rush and I tend to want to see the end or the conclusion faster. It's definitely a quote that I just keep reminding myself saying like, you know, take it slow, enjoy the present, really like, be the present and just let myself fully embraced on what is happening right now, and either if it's ups and downs, and the ending is going to come, right? The conclusion is eventually going to come, so there's no need to have to rush to the life.

Our

featured speaker today is the founder and owner of Investing at Home, organizer at Zen Path Wellness, software engineer at Capgemini, and an MIT Bootcamps alumnus. She's a highly motivated entrepreneur and software developer with a strong background in computer science and project management.

Emily, it's a great pleasure to have you as our featured guest today. Thank you so much for coming in to share your journey with us. So I was wondering if you might kick us off talking about some of the earlier experiences in your life. And if you feel that there were any particular people or experience that you had that really shaped the direction that you decided to take.

I'll be happy to.

I'll start from the beginning. So when I was applying for colleges, I was very lost. Every other, you know, 17 year old, I don't really know what I want to do in life yet. And computer science was the hot topic back then, right? So, of course, also as an Asian family, you know, it was either doctors, lawyers, or software. So I picked software. I went ahead, did my undergrad and my master's. That's the way to go, right? After college, I find a software developer job at Capgemini, which is a great consulting firm. And then a couple years ago, my mom was sick, so she was diagnosed with cancer. At the time, we have a couple of family businesses that she was the CEO for, and just because you're sick doesn't mean, you know, you got to put aside all the responsibilities and just call it off all the projects because, you know, there are employees who need their income, need their salary. I was rushed to take over her position to kind of, you know, keep the projects alive while she's in the hospital, checking up, recovering, doing surgery.

And that was the moment that I realized that I know nothing of business. You I, my undergrad and master year really didn't prepare me at all for how to run a business, how to make it operational, how to, you know, make sure that people are actually getting paid and the project is running smoothly. I talked to ventures representing the company, but they treat me like a little kid because I act like a little kid so I realized that even though I do like the job of software engineer is not going to prepare me for the skills I need for if I do want to you know be a boss one day because that was my goal so after my mom has you know recover a little and I no longer have to you know step into her role I thought that all right now it's the good time for me to really practice on my own. Independent projects started from a gelato shop because I love gelatos. I hate driving to Cambridge for the couple gelato stores that's good around the area, so I thought that I'm going to open a store outside of the city. I'm going to serve the best gelatos and I'm going to make all my mistakes here because I can and it's not going to like cause me to bankrupt if I fail because I know I will fail. I really

learned so much from the hands -on experience of the shop. Running a shop is so different from what I thought and it's actually a lot more challenging in the aspects I didn't expect. I mean I'm happy to say that right now is still you know up and running and I didn't make a completely mess of it so that's great and that also gave me some of the knowledge as well as the confidence I really looking for. I went ahead to do the innovation bootcamp to gain some more knowledge as well as to make some really meaningful connections. And since my background is still in tech, I would like my startup to be in tech. And there is a point of time that I keep talking myself out of it because I'm so fearful of the wrong decisions I'm going to make. But there is really no time to start a startup. And with that mindset in mind, I finally started with investing at home, which is a tech platform that's for alternative investment methods. I was really inspired by all the conversations I have with other young professionals and just the shift in the concept of investment and also the uncertainty that I feel from, you know, just chatting with these people. I thought that this platform will be a great aid for anyone who's looking into alternative investments. And that's really kind of the mission. That's why I started. And then this year, I'm very invested in this tech startup, but also I know there's another topic that just keeps coming up in my life, which is mental wellness. And there's a lot of very sad case around aging, mental wellness being not being fulfilled. And also I noticed that it's been another topic that come up so much whenever I'm chatting with friends, and they're not really getting the help that is needed.

So that's why I started my new project, Team Health Wellness, and that's what we have so far. Wow.

I mean, I think that's incredible from working on what your mum's projects and things when she needed you most, which is phenomenal to be able to be there, to gelato, to mental wellness and working in tech as well. I feel like you've worked in such a number of different areas and requiring different skill sets. Are there any things that you feel, skills or tactics or areas that you feel are actually very similar between them that you, is a skill that you've learned from, say, early on and you've been able to continually apply since then?

Like you said, a lot of different skills is needed and obviously I'm just one person. So I learned very early on from just, you know, stepping into my mom's roles that it It definitely takes way more than one person to run a business. Amazingly, she has a lot of very good work friends, her employers, that are not trying to take advantage of the situation, but instead they're trying their best to help me out to keep the business going. I was the only person that was fighting that battle. I know for sure that the company was going to fall apart in the second week.

So I have learned that the success of any kind of project or business is to find the right teammate. So I was never really shy from asking for help. Even the gelato shop, I couldn't maintain it by my own person. Because I learned that at a very early stage of the gelato shop, which is a little disappointing for me. But apparently I don't have a very good tongue. I can't really taste. I mean, I like sweet. So for me, ice cream or gelato is sweet, and therefore it's good. But apparently other people have a more dedicated tongue. You know, they can taste the differences in texture, in sweetness. As soon as I learned that, I was like, OK, well, I need to recruit, because I, you know, my tongue is not going to keep this gelato going. My first lesson, and also my, like, super important lesson for myself, is that don't be shy to ask for help and also don't think I can take on everything by myself.

Both really wise things to take away from that and having the humility early on to realize that oh man maybe I have the passion for this but my taste buds aren't cut out for this. I mean I think we all kind of come to that head like this is my passion but there are certain things I just don't feel like skilled in that I need for this job. So kudos to you for realizing that so early on too. I'm really impressed. I hadn't realized that was the way that you kind of stepped into these businesses. I think it's really interesting though, that like you allowed yourself the freedom to try a gelato shop and you would like to have like a tech startup. Can you sort of talk about like why a gelato shop first? you said you felt like you could make your mistakes there. Was there a particular drive

for that business?

First, the idea started with a coffee shop that just seemed to be the bougie thing to do, for lack of better words. A lot of people that I know, their retirement plans, open a coffee shop and then relax. And that is also one of my goals. So a coffee shop is to become. When I first look into the requirements and all the permits and things I need to acquire to open a coffee shop, I was speaking I was a little shocked how many of those preparations I need to be doing. Also with this taste buds thing I was talking about, so I'm particularly bad with coffee. I can't differentiate good coffee and bad coffee and I was advised that you know if you want to a coffee shop to success you need to stand out in one way or other you know, either be the cheapest coffee shop, be the quickest, or be the one that tastes the best. Obviously, living in England, you're aware of Dunkin' Donuts, as well as Starbucks. It's a little hard to beat them in price and timely manners. So I put on hold of the coffee shop idea. My next idea was the bubble tea shop. Coming from an Asian background, I love a good bubble tea, and I know that, you know, the Asian population is rising, as well as, you know, there are a lot of Americans and people from other cultural backgrounds are trying bubble tea as well. So I look into it and I realized that I'm not the only one who is aware of this situation, right?

There is a bubble tea place every blocks in downtown Boston. Some of them are named brands, some of them are local brands, but the variety of bubble teas that is being offered on the market seems to be pretty well. There's really no much more innovation that need to be added for bubble tea, either flavors or textures or things add to it. So then I kept looking to see what else is out there. Gelato came in mind. So the gelato shop, the location is in Burlington, though in the area there's elementary school, there's a high school, you know, there are a lot of people who enjoy gelato in the area, but there is a lack of a shop there. So that's why eventually we landed on this idea is because, um, we went through a couple of iterations, but also it's also a little bit more location based.

Could you tell us a little bit more about your latest startup, Zenpath Wellness? I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. My mission of providing culturally attuned mental health support and resources to Asians working in the US. And I feel like there's a lot of complexity there that maybe a lot of people wouldn't initially be aware of. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Definitely. So first, apologize on the name. I know it's not like a super easy to pronounce name.

No, very cool name.

Awesome. You disagree with a lot of my friends. The mission of this organization is mostly focused on aging mental wellness. So daily speaking, right, aging is one of the groups that ask for mental health the least because, you know, we're taught that going to therapy means that you're admitting something's wrong with you mentally and there's this such a negative thing about with, you know, even talking about mental wellness in China that is really preventing people to reach out and ask for the help they need. The problem back in China is that the resource is very limited, so even when you do reach for help, it is maybe hard for you to get a therapist or to be diagnosed and get the medicine for it. But the situation is different here in the US, right? Mental well -being, it is, you know, very aware and is, you know, up and front in everyone's community as well

their lives. So the resource is there and now the next step is to push people to ask for help. There are a lot of things that is preventing that from happening. So I'll give a very concrete example. A lot of my friends, a lot of my Chinese friends are that I met in college. You know, we graduate together, we look for jobs together, we talk about things that's going wrong in job like every other friend group does during weekend hangouts, except I noticed that it's slightly different than when I'm hanging out with my American friends, because there is the option to quit your job and find another one. And that option is taken away from my international friends because if they quit their job, then they are on a timer to find another job within 90 days, and then they have to start their process about applying for H1B or their visa again. And also with the H1B lottery system, I don't know if you guys know about it, so basically they have three years of entering this lottery system to see if they get picked to be able to stay in the US or not. That is very stressful for a lot of people, But especially those people are good kids, good students, they get straight A's, they achieved a lot as a student, so and so that they can come here to a different country to get a higher education, and they probably still get straight A's here. But those are people who have done everything right in their entire life, and this is the first time they have faced uncertainty that is completely out of their control. So that's a lot of stress that's put on to someone, but then right now it seems like the society is normalizing it by saying everyone in this group goes through this stress, so like they can be stressed, you know, that's normal. It doesn't if we look at things individually, right? If they are stressed about it, there should be a way for them to feel better about it by asking for help. Right now, based on the insurance system, when people ask for a service, you already get matched to whoever's close to you, who has the most openings so they can take you as a new patient. Those therapists, even though they're professional, even though they are offering help, they may not understand what this system is and how that would have an impact on one's mental life. A lot of my friends have said that they have to take like half hour out of their our section to explain to their therapist what's H1B, and how does this system work, and what are they worrying about. And it's not a great, first of all it's a waste of time, but also it really takes the desire to really communicate their feeling out, out of equation,

because clearly they don't understand the frustration, so then why would you want to, you know, tell them like, how does that make you feel? So, part of this organization is to connect people based on their experience. If you connect with either a counselor or just a buddy, you are guaranteed that they understand your position. They're either in the same position or they have been in the position, so you don't have to take the time to explain to them exactly the logistics and stuff. The second problem that the community is facing is that if someone wants to get tested for ADHD which is a very common problem right now. The exams provided here are in English and it has a lot of vocabularies that are unfamiliar with everyday talk. So due to this language barrier it is very easy to first provide people to ask for help and second to get the wrong results. So that is also something that organization is striving is to either introduce a translator or to introduce a translator exam for people in different communities. Sorry, I know I tend to ramble. Feel free to come.

No, no, you didn't. No, I wanted to make sure I gave you ample time to explain everything you've envisioned so far. This is a really great idea, and I'm really glad that you've been able to kind

of, you know, see firsthand the issue and, and of think through the layers of it. While I am aware, you know, to a point about how competitive the H1B process can be and how grueling it can be. Like I don't have like the, the experience and the, you know, I've known people one off that have gone through this, but I think really realizing that there is a group of people that really needs a little bit of a boost because they're outside their comfort zone. I we started before we were recording, you were telling us about, you know, leaving the country, leaving your family to go pursue your education elsewhere. I mean, it's kind of in line with that. I mean, you're leaving every security that you've known and you're being asked to compete at a really high level, you need a support system. Like, that makes so much sense to me. And I will say too, like, I really empathized with what you said about, you know, you can find a good therapist, but like, I mean, obviously they need to speak your language, hopefully. I'm happy to say that I feel like there is a fairly good network of bilingual therapists in the US and all sorts of different languages,

but then you also have to make sure that your insurance can help you pay for it and Then you have to remove the stigma enough yourself to be like no I need to make time for this even though I need to work a 60 -hour week in order to work a 60 -hour week Like I need this as my me time There really are a lot of barriers to getting that help and then even if you find a great therapist that really wants to help you, do they really understand what you've been through? So I think you've thought through a lot of the barriers and I'm really excited to see this idea blossom. We do actually know a couple of MIT bootcamp alumni who are doing something similar in Canada for Latin American transplants there. So I'll definitely connect you with them too because this is obviously not an isolated thing that people deal with in the world.

But yeah, I really admire your mission there.

That's awesome. Thank you so much, Nancy. Yeah, I feel like before the clock, we were talking a little bit about the week. And the reason also why April is so stressful is that this is, you know, the month when the lottery result kicks in. Back in college, we say May is the month of goodbye, right? You're just saying goodbye to all your friends for graduation, but now we start working, April is becoming the month to say goodbye.

Oh, I did not know that. Okay, I mean, that's a really good thing to understand. Yeah, and there are so many people in that situation. I mean, I really do know quite a few people in the alumni community that had to leave the US because there just wasn't another opportunity because the competition for those positions

is so high. Well, we can talk about whether or not that's ridiculous or not another time.

Hello all, I hope you're enjoying this episode with Emily. I wanted to ask you, our listeners, give us a review in your podcasting platform of choice. We don't have sponsors and don't run ads, but we are looking to grow. So if you feel we bring value to your listening experience, please drop us a review when you get a chance. Thanks so much.

I really would love to hear some about some of your other work too. So I was pretty excited for you when I read that investing at home had been selected for the Massachusetts social impact program. So I was kind of wondering if you could, you know, talk about what investing at home does, and then and what this acceptance means for the company and maybe touch on what you envision down the road.

Yeah, definitely. Investing at home is really the fun project. I really be enjoying it so much. So it focused on alternative investment methods. I don't know for you guys, Nancy or Spencer,

when you think of the word investment, in my brain, I still goes first to stock, bond, CDs, is the very traditional investments. And maybe it's just me, but I really don't know so much about it. After I graduated college and got my first paycheck, I saw that I was being very rational and adult -y by putting some money into my savings account, putting some money into the stock, and then COVID happened, so I lost a lot of money in stock, and then I was very unhappy about it. But then I was told that, Well, markets definitely play a major role in that, but also I really have no idea what

I'm doing. Right. Like I watch a YouTube video from some person whose account is like financial advisor. And he said that, you know, this stock is great. So I went ahead. I was like, all right. Okay. Well, not to trust about a stranger with my money. So I went ahead and put my money in stock. And when I'm talking with the new generation, the Gen Z generation, right. I have realized that investment for them take a different meaning than from me. When I was talking to a friend not too long ago, just last month,

she is super excited with her investment method, her new investment method. And you know, so obviously I was curious, especially as I'm building this platform. So I asked her like, oh, what is she investing in? And she told me she was investing in digital cameras. And I was shocked, I was like, maybe you're buying a camera, right? Is that just a fancy way of saying, like, I'm buying stuff by saying I'm investing in something? They're just like, no, no, there is actually like an investment community out there that are investing in cameras. You study the product, you kind of bet on which one will go up in value, you invest in it, you keep a good condition, and then later you sell it. This example keep coming up.

You know, there are people who invest in sneakers. There are people who are investing in like Pokemon gold cards, which is out of my mind. But like, apparently it's a thing and there's a real community out there. That's when investing at home is growing to the shape that it is right now. I have realized that for me to just try to build an investment platform based on my knowledge on what investment is, I fear for the platform as well as for the future community who's using the platform. Right now we are adding a community forum feature on investment at home to really give this a very unlimited access for people who wants to look for people who are interested in the same investment methods. This is a platform for you to communicate, educate, and bond. And then based on people's interest, we as the platform owners will take into account when we're developing the second features to incorporate whatever they're interested in. That's why right now Investment at Home seems like it's a little bit out of place because we're trying to do so many things, but we're really trying to take account of whoever this platform attracts, whichever the community attracts, and really trying to build this platform to fit into their need. That's

very, very cool. I've got, you know, friends who invest in watches and classic cars. I've heard about people investing in whiskey barrels and, you know, all sorts of different things. I think that's such a cool approach you're taking to the idea. Now, you mentioned earlier that you were recently accepted to the MBA program at the Syed Business School at the awesome. I actually know, I'm good friends with the head of investment at the business school. He's a really good guy. Hopefully I can introduce you at some point, but how did you decide that now was the right time to pursue your MBA?

Yeah, definitely. Well, first of all, thank you. I would love to have that connection made. Thank you so much for offering. And second, yeah, MBA, it started kind of before the innovation bootcamp. So I joined the innovation bootcamp because I know that I have such an lack of knowledge in how to actually fund and manage a company. So I joined the bootcamp and it taught me great lessons on how to start the company. Now that I have really, you know, got my feet in the water, tested out a little bit, I realized that this may sound a little bad, but like, trust me, my purpose isn't really to shade anyone.

that as a female agent founder I have such a hard time raising funds. I walk into my pitch to VCs and I'm greeted with a room of white guys in suit. I pitch the night there and I can tell that like you know in their face they are not sold and it is bad for the company obviously because I couldn't raise the fund that I was looking for. Also, I keep realizing that in my head, I was thinking while I was that, oh, I wish there was just one woman sitting across from me. So that is what got me interested in like looking more into people who work at VCs. I'm not saying that as a woman, it's the job for them to invest in other women funders, but I'm saying that it is a place that requires more women to work in and also this lack of different perspective that is presented during my pitch meetings kind of in a way motivates me into even thinking of doing a career switch into the VC world and see if that is somewhere I can make a difference there as well. After I realized the idea I started looking into what kind of background is needed. So I guess pursuing MBA kind of happens from two different perspectives. One is that I do want to keep furthering my education so that I can actually manage a startup better, but also it presents a new opportunity for me to see if there is a future career shift into the VC world where maybe I can just do more help in the different paths. So right now I haven't really landed, on which way I wanted to pursue exactly yet. But I know MBA is a great platform for me to present me the opportunity to do a career shift in the future.

Well, I really appreciate your answer, but I kind of feel sad that that's like part of the evaluation strategy, you know, that you don't feel like you're being taken seriously because you're female or because of your race, I don't, I am very well aware that that's something that happens. I'm really sorry that that's been your experience. And I give you all the credit for thinking about, you know, how to solve this problem. I think we do know some people in this community that we can definitely connect you with to talk about that. And one of them that I'm thinking of right now, she kind of thought about the problem the same way you are. She founded a business and then she became part of a venture capital firm so that she could decide, you know, to invest in some projects that she really believed in and deal with some of the discrimination that she felt as a female.

You know, my startup advisor and definitely kudos for him. Like I really appreciate his advice, but You know, he basically advised me to consider recruit white male with a finance background on my board, and maybe have him to pitch the idea instead of me. He is suggesting that to watch for my best interest, and I appreciate it, honestly, right? But I feel like that's been the game strategy for so long. Maybe I can do something to not change the game, but maybe just like pivot it, like at least one little bit.

I can understand that I am not the person that can articulate every idea really well. And that perhaps someone else's, you know, words and the, I have run a nonprofit before and I was amazed at some of the volunteers that I would give kind of, you know, like basic training to, to talk about what we did and then listening to them just take off with it. You know, so sometimes like when people really believe in your why they can say things in a whole new way. And can very much appreciate that. But at the same time, I am insulted to think that people need to look at a familiar face in order to, you know, in order to buy into something great. Unfortunately, I know it's true. I mean, we see it in marketing all the time, but I still find it a bit offensive. I agree with you. So can I jump ship a little bit because I was really curious. We were actually talking about vending machine businesses really recently and I'm not super aware of them like in the Boston area. So I was, I I to ask you about your experience running the Insta Manny Petty Station and kind of that journey. And sure now that you've sort of told us how you jumped into this, some of it might have felt like a little bit painful. That's what we were talking about, like how hands -off is that sort of a business versus you really have to be calling the guy to repair them, you have to be calling your suppliers.

is huge. So, I was just wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the highs and lows of that from your perspective.

Yes, definitely. So, Vending Machine is a very fun project, especially when it comes with price on nails. And I love, like, dressing up my nails. So, it kind of is a project that came from a personal interest before, you know, we did the market analyze and really decided to win for it. It started from a trade show in Florida. Apparently there is a vending machine trade show in Florida. I was not... I didn't know that, you know, it's such a well -grown community to have their own trade shows. So I went in and I was completely amazed by the variety of different vending machines there is out there that exist. I apologize for my ignorance but the last

time I interacted with a vending machine was back in high school for lunch and it was kind of very busted looking and broken half of times. I was amazed by how pretty vending machines looks now. It has a LED screen, it's interactive, has pictures, has videos, it even has sounds. So I said, all right, okay, minimum investment and maybe there will actually be a long -term return, especially if it's cutting down the labor cost. Also the rent for a vending machine in the mall is much lower than the actual store. So we went ahead and do it. We realized that there's actually quite a bit of competition than what we're foreseeing, especially at airports, which is the prime area that we're looking at as well here in Logan. There is also this blooming increase in inventive machines in the beauty community as well, because, you know, Especially with false lashes and things that don't really expire, it is just the perfect product to be put into a vending machine and just let it sit there for whoever passes by. Knowing the competition, we kind of did this backwards because I was still in my very early learning phases.

So we kind of ordered the product, ordered the nails, ordered everything before we went into the market and looked for rental places. We were able to secure a rental place that is at the South Shore Mall. I don't know if you have been, it's a very popping mall, a lot of traffic. We had it right in front of the cheesesteak factory, so great location. A lot of people see it, right? And I think one mistake that we made, that if I'm thinking of doing a vending machine something else later, I will avoid myself doing, is that the machine is so fancy, you know, especially with the screen and everything, that people just assume that the product is also pricey. So even though it draws attention, I see a lot of people like take a look to see what it is, a lot of people are hesitant of actually buying it because they just assumed that it's overpriced. Also, vending machines break a lot more than I imagined them to do so. Because when we first ordered it, we were very trusting of the manufacturer because they said that, like, you know, they don't break that often. And if they do, just unplug it and re -plug it again. That would solve most of the problems. So we went ahead and trust that.

But apparently nothing works so simple in the world. and when they do break, it's kind of hard to figure out which part of it is broken because, you know, it has a software, it has a motherboard that's attached to it, it also has the whole electricity issue. When it's down, like when it's broken, you don't get any cells. You can't really remove this vending machine from the mall because it is so heavy. So you kind of just have to let the broken machine sit there until the maintenance person comes. And what that is hurting is hurting the reputation, you know, if people come in and then they try it and notice that it's broken, it's just going to assume it's broken every time afterward when they

go in. So overall, I like the project. I don't like how many hiccups we got along the way, but I think it was a great learning experience for me. The sales number isn't exactly what we're hoping to hit for the price on nails, but I heard that there is a very good increase in price on nail sales on TikTok shop. So that is actually the areas that I'm going to explore a little in the very near future to see if maybe the e -commerce is a better option than the vending machines.

I am so impressed with your willingness to just try different things and go into different areas. I think that's such a powerful trait in an entrepreneur. I'm really, really impressed by that. Very cool.

Unfortunately, you are right. Like hardware is hard because there's so many different things that can break. It can be so difficult to like figure out where the issue is. So I deeply sympathize with that issue for sure. Now, one of the questions we've been discussing recently in this community in a number of different Saturday sessions is how you know when to quit a nine -to -five job working for someone else and give your startup 100 % of your time and energy. Given all the different experiences and things you've done and tried and experimented with, I'd love to hear your thoughts, your perspective on that.

That's a great question. And I will say that I guess I'm not the boldest interpreter that I know in my community.

There are people that, as soon as they get the LLC registered, they're quick to quit their job and just go out. And I have so many kudos for those people because they are living on the edge. And for me, I just, I can't. I'm the person who tends to think of the worst case scenarios and I have my mind stuck in it for a while until I'm proven that, you know, it's not going to go that bad. For that reason, I still have my 9 to 5 job as a software developer. For me, it's always thinking like, oh yeah, here's my safety net, right? If everything goes wrong, they could very well be, then at least I know that I will still have a roof above my head. And then I can talk about the pros and cons of that situation. the pro is a little obvious, is that I feel like I can go with my passion for a lot of the decisions that I make. And that doesn't mean I'm making impulsive decisions just based on like no data points or no facts, but more that I know

that I can be in the prepared stage for a bit longer than other entrepreneurs that I know because I'm not so rushed to go out to do the pre -seed fundraising or even the seed fundraising because, again, I have this safety net, right? But the cost of that is also very obvious. The more time I spend in the preparation phase, the more back and forth I can go to. And sometimes the more back and forth isn't a good thing, right? Sometimes the entrepreneur spirit means you just have to go out there and do it and talk to the investors. That is one thing. But the second thing also is that having a full -time job kind of is a backup to allows me to give up on the idea. So I'm someone who's very quick into do things, try it, and if not then call it quits. The reason why I do that is that I know the more time I spend on idea, the more attached I get. I once started like creating a journaling app for like also for mental wellbeings. We are in the idea phase for three months. We not only came up with the features for stage one, we also wrote all the features we're going to do for stage two, stage three and four, and we start looking at, you know, hiring developers to come and do a mockup of this ideas. and we gathered so many interests from the market to verify that yes, there is actually need. And then Apple came up with their own journaling app, and it's great. And we cannot compete with that.

So that was one of the things that I feel like waiting too long, and also talking about it for too long, is kind of make us miss the opportunity for actually being able to do the project. But the good thing about having the job is that once we realized that Apple came up with their product. I'm working here with the other, oh, I actually worked there with other girl that I know from Innovation Bootcamp. Either of us quit our job for this project, so then, you know, when we have decided that, you know, it's time to call it a day of this project, we're okay with it because we both know that we have our day job that we can just go back to, and it doesn't affect our stress level as

much as it would if one of us have quit our jobs over this project. So sorry, I can't give you a straight answer which way I think is the good thing to do, but this is some of the situations that I have experienced.

Yeah, in some ways I think it's the best answer though, because I don't know, because I haven't been in that situation so many times, but it definitely, I get the impression that it's situational and it's personal too. I mean, part of that conversation that we were having in this community was about like evaluating your level of risk, like, you know, what you're willing to risk. Like, are you willing to risk your mortgage versus, you know, if you're living with your parents at the time, maybe it feels a little safer, or I would just say living in a situation where it's not going to be taking the mortgage money, if you're taking food away from your children, that's a higher level of risk than if, if you feel like you have some disposable income. So there's a lot of factors to consider and I appreciate you giving us like some real -life examples

I've heard that entrepreneurs like intelligent gambling, right? And I'm a very bad gambler so that's why I always Wanted to have a safety net for

myself I think going back to what the I don't even have a drive to gamble which is probably part of what makes that challenge. I think going back to, you know, the training we got at boot camp, basically the combination of the Navy SEAL and the

pirate, right? Like being able to execute and evaluate, well, evaluate the situation intelligently and execute precisely. And then also kind of having that wild spirit where you're just like, well, the sea's rolling this way today, so you kind of need a little bit of both. I think I firmly believe in that.

Yes, definitely. I really like that.

But I hope he doesn't take offense at my re -articulation. But yeah, that lesson definitely lives on. I really appreciate everything that you've shared with us today. I know we just have a couple minutes left and I'd really like to ask you one final question. If you could leave us with one thing today, what words of wisdom would you either pass along from someone else or just want to give us yourself today?

Yeah, definitely. There's one quote that I decided to make my quote of the year, and I'm trying my best to follow this quote this year. And that is, it's meant to be a longer journey. So it's definitely a quote that I remind myself to embrace the present because i tend to rush and i tend to want to see the end or the conclusion faster. it's definitely a quote that i just keep reminding myself saying like you know take it slow enjoy the present really like be the presence and just let myself fully embrace on what is happening right now and either if it's ups and downs and the ending is gonna come write the conclusions, eventually it's going to come, so there's no need to have to rush to the finish line.

Absolutely. That's very true. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today and all the different things you've talked us through your journey and the different experiences you've had. It's been phenomenal talking with you. For people who might want to reach out with questions or anything like that, do you have a platform that you'd like to be open to discussions from?

If you want to send me a message here in Discord or on LinkedIn, I'm open for both of them.

Excellent. Thank you so much, Emily. We appreciate your thoughts and everything you've shared with us. Thank you very much to those who could join us during the discussion today as well. Nancy and I and the team behind Founders Voyage feel fortunate to be part of this community with you and for the opportunity to bring this cooperative learning experience to the community each week. Emily, we love nominations for any future Saturday session guests. If you have anyone that you think, you know, you'd love to hear about their journey in depth in a future session, please let us know. We'd love to speak with them and hear, you know, see how we could bring value to them and they could bring value to the community. And obviously, please let me know as your timeline for coming here to the UK and going to Saïd Business School is.

I'd really look forward to meeting up with you and introducing you to my friend James and seeing how things go.

Thank you so much for having me. This is really fun talking to you guys. Thank you.

It's been really fun for me as well. Thank you so much. Just to the wider community, if anyone would like to support the Founders Voyage podcast that Nancy and I have been working so hard on, you can donate to that through our Patreon. The link I think is in the questions and discussion channel. Thank you so much again, Emily, for joining us. It's been a lovely discussion.

Have a good rest of your day, guys.

You as well.

Thank you. You too. Thanks so much, Emily.

You've just finished another episode of Founders Voyage, the podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. The team at Founders Voyage wants to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We hope you enjoyed your time with us, and if so, please share this with someone else who might enjoy this podcast. You can also support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and by donating to our Patreon. Outro music today is Something for Nothing by Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band.