Maca Botta - Self Creation

I would say that one of my main superpowers is reinventing myself, and I love that. There were times in which I'd say, hey, there is something wrong, that I am again thinking of starting over another company or doing another stuff or learning a new thing. And people would say, why? There is a lot of people until now that they believe that my exit on the co -working space was the worst decision ever.

And I meet people and they look at me like, you crazy. to. I think for me, it's a new opportunity to decide again who I want to be.

Our

featured speaker today is the co -founder and CEO at Brava, known for creating impactful projects and supporting other entrepreneurs. Maka, it's a great pleasure to have you as our featured guest today. Thank you so much for being willing to share your journey with us. Thank you for the

invitation. I love very much sharing my story because other stories change my life. And if I can contribute a little bit or at least inspire somebody. And of course, each conversation is an opportunity, a passport to a new adventure. So I love the way you did the introduction. So I may have already one take away from this conversation.

Well, I completely agree with you that the stories of others have transformed the way that I look at things. So leading off, would you mind talking about your experience growing up, what that was like for you, and if there were any early events or people that came into your life that you feel really kind of shaped the direction that you took?

I love that one.

Well, I grew up in Uruguay. Uruguay is a small country in South America. We tend to explain this because most of the people, well, maybe now because of soccer, you know, but you're where it's between Argentina and Brazil and South America. That means you live in a country where the whole population is three and a half million. So most of the people know each other. Everything is very local in a way. And I would say I had a very mid -class, simple neighborhood life in Montevideo. I would say I was the kind of person, I had the kind of childhood in which I thought I knew how my life was going to turn out. Like I know, but at least where I lived, everybody knew what they want to study in the future or, or most of that people still lived in the same neighborhood. They have the same jobs their families had or whatever, like, and I would say a turning point in my life was when I decided to go abroad on a trip and I travel on my own. That was a very mind -breaking experience in the sense, first of all, that I realized that I really enjoy being with myself and that sense of freedom and autonomy, but also for me it was very revealing to see that in my country there were other things to be done. Most of the people would say, Oh, in Uruguay, things are tough, starting a company in Uruguay, it's difficult. When I quit the financial industry to co -found the first co -working space in my country, it's called Sinergia.

My grandmother would say, Gita, but are you crazy, starting a company in Uruguay? For her, it was like the worst news ever. For her that I work at the financial industry was amazing, was perfect. It was what my grandfather did, and that would mean I would have a job for a lifetime. For me, that was very revealing. My father, his first reaction was, okay, I don't know if you're going to carry out that idea or not, but if you're going to do so, stop sharing it with everybody. You're going to be copied. And maybe today that's cliche for us, because we know in this era of technology, collaboration, discord communities in which we all share knowledge and journeys in order to learn from each other. And we know that it's always an opportunity for you to develop. And for me to develop myself, because it's always bi -directional. So I think maybe that was our turning point, in which I say, Hey, there are things to be done differently. Sorry, Daniel Bo.

No, no, no.

I just wanted to say that I totally relate with you because that's the first thing that I always tell my friends. I had this friend from the bootcamp, he was saying I want some tips because he wanted to start a consulting business and that's like my business. I do consulting forever, like since 2009 probably. So he asked me for tips and I said the first thing, do not think that your family or your friends are going to support you right away. They're going to be trying to protect you in a way so they will not support you. You can find other entrepreneurs that can support you and will understand you, but your family and friends, the first reaction is always like, why don't you keep doing what you're doing? It's working. I can totally relate to that because I had the same experience. So kind of weird because our instinct says that our family is going to always support us no matter what. But the truth is when you're doing something different and risky, because entrepreneurship is taking risks, of course, if you think as an investment, Bigger the risk, bigger the reward, right?

Yeah, I know, they want to protect you, and that's so relatable, so...

Yeah, I would add on that, that it's, of course, that's a way of taking care of you, but I think also it's about their own fear. Because I think that when you are doing that, you're also challenging that people. I would say that one of my main superpowers is reinventing myself, and I love that. There were times in which I said, hey, there is something wrong, that I am again thinking of starting over another company or doing another stuff or learning a new thing. And people would say, why? There is a lot of people until now that they believe that my exit on the co -working space was the worst decision ever. And I meet people like that and they look at me like, are you crazy? I think for me, it's a new opportunity to decide again who I want to be, because I think that's the most amazing thing about being alive, about all the tools I have, all the privilege I had, because what I didn't know in my childhood was that I was one of the most privileged persons, like a part of a group like you, of the most privileged people

on the planet. I was feed, I had a home, a very cozy family where they loved me, a lot of stuff that most of the people don't. I was able to study, I was able to have a job, to a job, to pay my university. Also had always the opportunity to rethink myself, redesign my life. I know now it's three years since I moved to the woods next to the sea, 100 kilometers from Montevideo, my capital city and where I was born. And the truth is, I was about to move to Serbia prior to this pandemic. Now, three years ago, I was another person and now I'm not the same woman that came to this place. And now it's a non -negotiable, But I know for sure that maybe in three years I think differently and that's okay.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can totally agree with that.

And so I want to ask a question to you. Is that I've been checking out since I was a member of World Trade Center Associates and we know that you guys have a free trade zone there or establishing your business with no tax and stuff. And that caught my attention. And also like I wanted to ask a personal question. So the thing is, how is to have a business in Uruguay? What are the benefits or what are the hardships of having a business in Uruguay? And how has your family reacted after you got into entrepreneurship? And now, how is their relationship with what you do now that it has some time that you left the financial industry?

So,

OK, I will go with the first one. Now, for example, here where I live, I live very close to Punta del Este, that it's a very well -known beach.

Oh yeah, yeah, touristic.

Yeah, very touristic beach in Latin America. They are opening three zones or trade zones here. One is fully located in audiovisual production. And it's amazing the things that are going on here. I know I can be objective. I can't because one of the things I learned in these last three years is that here you can have a quality of life. I can breathe very pure air.

So, I won't be objective, but I think we are in a very good position regarding the region, regarding the world. Latin America is very secure right now, Uruguay is a very stable country. We are doing a lot of stuff to attract people, especially talent and knowledge from other places. We have the best connectivity in the continent. Here you have a lot of speed, you will have the ability to have a good connection in most of the land of the country. It's a small country, so that means you will get, we are very close to connect with the president, with whoever you want to talk to.

There's always a friend that knows a friend and you will get to that person. So that makes making things very easy. We are an open country, very cosmopolitan. Actually, especially where I live, we are attracting people from abroad that are people regarding tech. We are creating a very interesting hub in tech, a lot around biotechnology, health services, knowledge. I think we are in a very strategic position. We are also a country full of very diverse, very European. So also it's easy culturally to adapt and to be part of it. And as we are very small, we love to receive people. Like I think, at least that's what I believe.

We are very hospitable when people come here. And also we have a lot of incentives for business to stay here because we value that diversity of knowledge and experiences. And regarding my family, well, I would say it's a relationship, a conversation that keeps going because, of course, I'm not the traditional daughter or sister. And especially, for example, I decided not to be a mother. And I am the eldest sibling in my family. And that for my family wasn't easy. They are still asking, I'm really sure, I don't want to be a mother for example. And regarding the business and the exposure and what it means, it depends because there were times where things are going amazing and you have a lot of visibility and you're celebrating and you're happy and they are very happy for you and they celebrate with you also and it's something that we don't always share all the time. There are times when you have companies and you are pushing new stuff, new projects, new things that are not that easy. And those times maybe you need to be relaxed, so focused, and you can't because you need to be pushing your business. And maybe, I don't know, for example, I had some health issues that taught me a lot about how I need to take care of myself, how I need to put myself first, what is important for me and what's not. In those times, I think they tend to tell you, like, hey, are you sure you need to do this? Like, and also that's important. I think it's always like a mirror that helps you to check if you are doing OK. But I think it's very important to be brave enough to question even the people that love you most.

Wow. What an insight. I mean, it's so refreshing to see your view because sometimes I think we need to be really tough as a business owner to be the leader and especially at home you don't want to be seen as weak or that you don't have control over your business because

that's something that is really like life -changing and you have to be on charge you know and I think everyone that has a company bigger or small you're gonna have this roller coaster of ups and downs and to manage that with your family it's really a challenge and I see that you get that. And I thought it was really nice to hear about Uruguay because I've been looking at it for so long and as you just confirmed everything that I already thought about the country even I haven't been there yet but yeah it's nice to know that we still have business -friendly countries in Latin America. It's getting harder everywhere. Always when I think about Uruguay or maybe Chile, it's very nice as well. But here in Brazil, it's not easy. They don't want to help us.

But I think Uruguay, it's pretty nice.

I feel like at some point we're going to have to have like a topical chat about the difference in doing business with different countries, because I've heard some of those things about Brazil more recently myself. And I had no idea that there was, you know, such a difference between such close neighbors. But thank you so much for sharing the experience that you've had in Uruguay. And I actually want to go into something else that you said. So I'm also the oldest in a large family and I know that we're from different cultures, but I, as a female, understand the social pressures of having a family and also being from a big family and just the perception that you should be a mother and that that is part of the way that you have worth. And we often talk on this channel about how our businesses feel like our babies. And I mean, you've successfully raised several children, if you look at it that way. And I think that that's truly impressive. The one that I'm really excited to ask you about, even though I know you've had a lot of accomplishments is, can you talk about your experience building Brava from a social company to the organization that it is now and what it was like to start a company in 2020 and how the pandemic perhaps kind of shaped that road for you. I know you hinted at it a little bit earlier.

Thank you for the question. Prior to that I need to do a comment on something Daniel said about being a leader and being tough and being brave for me, and it has very related about building a company in a pandemic or starting a company. I feel we need to be sure to know that there are diverse types of leaders and leadership. And for me, being a leader, it's being vulnerable and also sharing. It's caring in the sense that I think that's the most important thing. I think that leaders being brave, it's being vulnerable.

That's something I wanted to

share.

And regarding my companies or starting Brava, yeah, I would share. For me, the thing about Vrava, it was very personal because when I started Synergia, I was the only female founder. We six founders. And I didn't realize until, I know, three or four years passed that being female makes it different. I didn't realize. I really thought that all the things I did regarding promoting women and creating opportunities for female, I was doing it for others. Like, I am very privileged, I built my company, I made an exit, I paid for my university, like, come on. But in that process, I realized that there were a lot things that happened to me that were very related to being a woman, or to outperceiving myself a female. But I used to think that it was about me, that I wasn't prepared enough, that I was very young, maybe it was I didn't have enough age to understand that. I know, I was too intense. I talked too much. I don't know. I always thought the problem was me. And then I was selected by the U .S. State Department to go on a program with other female leaders from Latin America, and that was when I started realizing that I was also suffering. A lot of those things that were happening to me didn't have to relate to my story or to my personal stuff, but they were related to being female. And after co -creating other companies and solving other problems. I and other kind of stuff happened, but like, for example, the main tech conference, I'm talking like 10 years ago here in Uruguay, we didn't have a

keynote speaker. And I don't know, but I think, you know, we are half of the population of the world. Like, it's weird. So I start paying attention to the problem. I started realizing it was real. I started realizing that in my life, that problem, it was a barrier. And then I started like comparing myself with male colleagues and founders and stuff. And I say, okay, but hey, there's something here. And I start studying, I start talking with people, but also I realized and learned very quickly that there was a big business opportunity around that. The opportunity to help people, to help companies, to be part of the solution, to create, to develop of workspaces in which you can be yourself, whatever gender you perceive with, whatever place where you were born, whatever age you are.

And we are working on that since 2020. And when we started, we started this, not with this business model or this value proposition. Our first hypothesis was that if we helped women to be more visible, we were contributing to be part of the solution. So Brava started as a talent agency that we wanted to showcase women in events, conferences, places. So we will find like a perfect match and profile for each places because what happened, they would say, why there are not female on the panel or on the event? Why would you don't have a female speaker? Like, I don't know, because they are not, we don't know any. That was the answer we would get most of the times. And what happened to us, it was like, but wait, I know I have a friend or I have a friend of a friend or a colleague that it's an expert on that or that. So it wasn't that they were.

And say, okay, maybe it's our problem that we don't know how to, because of our self -confidence, there is a lot of stuff that work on that, especially biases that work on our self -confidence. So maybe we don't have that, we are not that confident to say, hey, I'm here, I want to share about this. And that's okay. So, okay, let's work on that. But let's work on the other side to say, hey, I will help you find a woman for that part. But that wasn't enough because we were talking only to women. And the thing is, this is a challenge for all of us because we are all responsible for the problem or the challenge, but also we are responsible to be part of the solution. But not because we need to be nice to the half of the population. But because there is something for everyone on this process, because this means that if we can, like I would say my purpose is about working so every woman can design and live the life she wanna live. But in order to that have to happen, I need that every man, male, boy can design and live the life he wanna live. So it's about being ourselves about being okay with the people we are, because that is what creates value. That is what builds successful companies. For me, there is not another way that putting people in the center and putting people in the center is that each of us can feel seen, listen to that. I can propose something, give my opinion, share how I feel, be vulnerable, even saying, hey, I don't like this, or I don't feel okay working this way. We need to have the ecological conversations, there is no way out, but we need to build and find and learn tools and ways to do it in a safe space, in a healthy way, so we ensure that nobody's hurt

on the process, because it's not easy for anyone.

Wow, I'm actually speechless now. It's so refreshing to hear what you have to say, because you actually opened my mind. I just said that being a leader is being tough and being sure of what you're doing. And that's mostly the way I present myself to my family. I am a younger sibling from a family of three boys. That's what I think they expect from me, you know, boys don't cry. And you're actually right. I just reflected on your words, I realized that with my team, the people that work with me, I'm much more vulnerable than with my family. Because they know me and they know me every day, they know that I'm sure of what I'm doing, and they're living it, and they know it works, so I don't have to prove anything to them. And maybe I could face my family the same way, being less of a guy sometimes. this may be not a thing that will change what I am, it's just going to reveal what I'm actually feeling and maybe it's better. And you're right, like if you want to have freedom as a woman, you have to think that everyone must have freedom as well. And the same thing, it's a two -way road, because when you say that, it's really impressive actually, because we now have polarization on everything and even on gender stuff. As you said that, I feel so much relieved and refreshed because I see that you have this vision and this vision is amazing. It's everyone, you know, we're stuck, boys don't cry and we have to live like that, you know, very nice to hear that.

Thank you, that's powerful, your reflection. Can I add something? Yeah, go ahead.

I would say that we need to stop saying that boys don't cry. I think we need to see much more leaders, much more boys crying to show that all the boys cries, that we can have role models that cry, that they are vulnerable because in that sense, we also enable boys to be, to feel, to do whatever they want because at the end, it's about stereotypes and stereotypes are something, in images that we created, that we built. For example, the concept of inclusion. Who can include another people? Who is, what is normal? Or what is to be a boy? There is not only one way to be a boy or to be a girl. And I think that is the opportunity we have today that I think we are having the conversations. At least we are on a Discord podcast recording this conversation. That's powerful too.

To start asking ourselves or starting creating the possibility to see, to recognize, to celebrate a wide range of types and styles of boys and girls and whatever, because it's also non -binary in the sense that it's a very wide universe, fortunately, of opportunities. Most of the times, and I think this is also what saved me or changed my perspective, it's about the conversation we have with ourselves. Because what you were doing when you were talking about a brave leader, you were talking about how you see yourself or how you think of a leader. And great. There are no correct or incorrect answers. Like, good or bad, let's leave it outside the conversation. I think the powerful thing is that's different. And there may be us leadership profiles or styles as people in the world. But I think we can decide on very important stuff about possibilities, about creating possibilities, because it's about business. Like, I don't know, for example, not having female on leading positions. You're missing more than half of the pool of talent

of the world, like that it's even not smart, you know? Like, so that's what I love about working in this. Everything falls into place. It's about people, it's about making people feel seen, it's about exploring all the possibilities we have about what we believe. But everything, it starts on what you believe or what you think of yourself. And that's the very powerful process that starts because you see on me how I feel about me because that's what you will perceive in the end. So if I work on myself, I mean, how to be the best version of myself, probably it's the best I can do to contribute to my family, my workspace, my company, my community. Nobody teaches that, like we learn how to do maths, how to do business, how to do yoga. That's amazing. Nobody teaches us, at least nobody taught to me, maybe, how to control my emotions, be okay about myself, check what I am saying to myself all the time, making space to re -ask some questions, to redesign, to change my mind.

I completely agree with you.

I think, well, I'm 42 at this point, and I feel like I'm still learning some of those lessons about how to validate what you're feeling and then move forward in the change process. And it's not until you can truly see yourself that you have access to become, as you say, the best version of yourself. I love saying that. And to really do the things that you feel you're most skilled and purposed to do when you really are able to unleash yourself, if you will. And Daniel, I really appreciate you sharing your lived experience too. And Maka, you sharing, you know, how you've kind of grown through the perceptions you were raised from, because I think that's such a powerful example of, you know, that juxtaposition. Like we do still feel the tug of these perceptions and these roles.

But

that's not how we can live and work and lead best. Hello

all, I hope you're enjoying this episode with Maka. I wanted to ask you, our listeners, if you give us a review in your podcasting platform of choice. We don't have sponsors and don't run ads, but we are looking to grow. So if you feel we bring value to your listening experience, please drop us a review when you get a chance. Thanks so much.

I know, you know, you're kind of showing off what an amazing mentor you are at the same time. And I think since was it 2019, you've been part of We Americas. And I was kind of wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. And if there's like a certain type of startup or stage of startup that you really get excited about working with?

I love those questions. First of all, We Americas, it's a very powerful community of female leaders of Latin America that we are very diverse. And it was something we create after this experience. The U .S. State Department selects some female leaders on each country and they finance a commercial trip. And that's very interesting. But the powerful thing about that, it's those three weeks sharing it with 20 females, very different from you that you haven't seen before. And for me, that was healing because I went on that opportunity there. And after that, we all get in touch each year, a new batch comes. And we created an NGO to inspire and promote female leadership. And we get together, we share workshops, we help each other. It's amazing. I'm very grateful for them because it was the beginning of my journey about realizing the challenges of being a woman, but how powerful it is, and about how it changed my mind when I start talking to myself nicely. I start paying attention to that conversation and the things we're talking about. But also, it was very healing how I felt with those women that were very different. I felt powerful. I beautiful, smart, because it was so powerful, so diverse, so vulnerable, such a safe space, but we were also talking about business, our companies, our challenges, our friends, our fund, because it's very particular where you live when you're a founder, also when you're a female. And then I was once again selected as an economic multiplier,

instead of going to a regional as WeAmerica's program, I went to a global one. And that was powerful, we were 40 this time from all the world, three weeks all together, Africa, Asia, Europe, Latin America, United States, like women from all across the globe. It was on that experience, I wasn't going through a very personal situation. Like I had separated from my boyfriend from that time. I had some personal familial issues. And I went to that program and I never felt so safe, so loved, so everything, it was powerful. And when I came back there, we created She Rocks Global, but it's a podcast that I have with a friend from that program, and it's from Serbia, Soja Kukic, another friend that is from South Africa, and Mavisa Maiema, and we co -founded She Rocks Global, a podcast in which we showcase perfectly imperfect women from around the world, because we were very sick

about hearing they are not leaders. So we showcase very expert women with amazing stories, and we try to have a conversation between the personal and professional life and challenges, but not the typical one. For me, it's very powerful. So that trip changed my life. And We Are Maricaz is a space where we will get together. We invite other females to come. It's a safe space where to develop, I would say. And the other question was,

Is there like a certain type of startup or stage of a startup that you really feel like you're drawn to?

Definitely, I love early stage. In Serbia, I was named as fire starter, and I think it's, I'm grateful for that. I love it. I love that stage in which you are falling in love with the problem, in which you are building a prototype, in which you are spreading the voice, having the conversation, connecting with the adrenaline, the emotion, learning the first stuff, finding the perfect team, designing a strategy, thinking on the business model. I work a lot on innovation, so I love that stage because you're all the time failing and starting over and stuff. I would say I'm an expert on that part and I enjoy it very much. Then also I love the stage of acceleration. Once you have the boat, the ship going, how you can keep doing, improving, this continuous improvement culture that for me is key for each company. It's like the heart bombing blood.

like if you are not all the time looking, observing how you can keep improving your processes, your product, your outcome, your delivery, you're not doing the job. And that's, it's kind of a culture. It's a muscle. It's like the thing we were talking about our life. I'm 39 in the middle of the life in which you say, okay, there is not going to be a place where I arrive about who I want to be. And companies, it's the same. It's how I train the muscle to keep making the right questions, even if you are very successful, it doesn't matter. It's not about that. That's the right analogy for me, by the way. Exactly.

I love early stage or acceleration. And then something I love because what I, now that I, I'm not that hands on it on all of my companies, except in Brava, I like doing interventions in companies. Daniela, I'm also a consultant. I will be my whole life. I won't do consultancy anymore, but I'm addicted to it. So I love doing like interventions when you have a specific problem. Okay, let's put hands on But I love this thing about going in and out because I love to create capacity not staying there It's not it's not helping.

I definitely can relate a little more not that I wasn't relating to you since the beginning as I said, I related so much with your story and Now that you say about the early stage and also being a consultant, I feel that I realized a long time ago that I am not very good on maintaining stuff, or, you know, yeah, you know. So it's like, I like to start new things, being involved in innovation. So that's why I work with software development. We apps, and usually for companies that never had any apps or something like that, and always feel so much rewarding that you started something. And then what happens next, you're already looking for the next thing. You don't wanna be involved anymore. So that works for me. This is actually related to my question now because I wanted to ask you because I see that you have been in different industries for so long.

I have as well different experience in different kind of industries. I work with television, I work in fashion, I work in marketing agencies, And then I started with software and always like changing places very rewarding but at the same time I find it difficult actually to Present myself because it's not usual to have that many Different background experiences and I see that you also have so how do you deal with that? like how do you present yourself in a way that doesn't make you feel that you don't have a focus and And at the same time, you do have a focus, that's to start new things and to work with different stuff. But how do you manage that? It would be great advice for the community and actually for me as well.

I love that question because it's a question that I keep doing to myself, I know, I think for the last at least five, eight years. And also it's something I validate, for example, when I ask my friends, my friends from school, what do I do for a living?

They cannot answer that question. I think that even my father kind of asked for this. So that's interesting. And also, when I co -founded Brava, I remember we had a very interesting article in the newspaper here in Uruguay, a lot of visibility because I had done our stuff. It was very easy to get a little of attention. And I remember sending that article to my mentor. I went to Columbia Business School to a program that is called ECLA,

to internationalize and accelerate companies. and I loved it. It's an amazing methodology. The founder of that program is my mentor. I the article, very emotional and happy. Hey, look, this is what I'm doing right now. What do you think? I'm very happy. I this is an amazing opportunity to create impact. I'm using all the tools of my journey. He would answer, very interesting, Maka, Yeah, an amazing business idea, but the thing is, I don't think it would be very successful because if you don't focus on the company, you a lot of stuff, something like that, he said. And I remember that when he said that, for me, it was devastating. And I've been working a lot in that, how I introduce myself. I leave aside part of my experience, I focus only on gender and talk about how I'm an expert on gender and business and team building. and I talk about leadership, I talk about startups, I talk about business model, I talk about communication. And I remember I called a friend that I met on that program that I also, I am part of the board of her company, because it's a friend that is sitting on my personal advisory board, because we share the thing about being founders and the challenges of our lives, personal, professional. Almost crying and saying, hey, Ro, listen what he answered to me. And she would say, Maca, relax. He's talking about focus in the 90s because he's 75. Nowadays, we don't understand focus that way. Until today, every time I remember this story, or I need to go back to this story to please myself and work with my friend Rocio, she would say, focus now is knowing what you're interested in. And you know that you have three dimensions that And you are interested in innovation, gender, and leadership. And you do that. And it was true. You filter. If there's a project you like or a challenge that it's within some of the three, you will go for it. And that's OK. She told me, you decided not to be a mother.

You're young. We have technology. Also, another thing that I realized with myself having these conversations is, for me, it's very important because one project waters the other one. And I learned one thing here that I applied there, the network always enlarges, that means more opportunities, more support, more people helping me and giving me their feedback. And I think there are opportunities in the more weak, how to say, like of the chain, like there are opportunities to create more opportunities. So with Rocio's answer about that focus now it's different and that we can understand it as different, two or three interests or areas, fields in which we would develop, that's one. And the other one is understanding, because also, I must confess, there were stages of my life in which I tried, I said, okay, they are right, let's focus, for this year, or for X amount of time, I will only work on this project, and it didn't work. But it's not that it didn't work for the project, it didn't work for me, because it's kind of my gasoline, you know, like it feeds me, it motivates me. Do you think you were sharing that I very much relate and resonated with that when we master something, we start getting bored and we need to find a new adventure. Well, that happens to me all the

time. Exactly. Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

I forgive myself about being like that. What I would do Actually, Nancy asked me for a bio and I didn't like, I said, whatever. I'm sorry for that, Nancy. We're going to share that now. But the thing is, I forgive myself, like I'm okay with

that. I am a generalist. I love learning new stuff. That's why I love to wait in Serbia. They made me fire starter because I love to do that. And I also think reinventing myself, it's part of was my DNA and my gift and and I think it's my journey is much more about how to learn to redesign and start over and to help other people doing that and also now that maybe I'm older I would say that it's also always inspiring other people because most of the messages of the idea of this culture that you need to have this everything needs to last friendship needs to last the whole life, your couple needs to last the whole life, the job needs to last. That's over.

So I also feel now we can do that. And we inspire people that were told and educated to be the whole life in the same place. You asked me about my childhood when we started. Well, I was educated and raised to have the same job, to work in the corporate world my whole life. I studied economics. So the best, best things that could happen to me when I was young was to work at the central bank, that of course it's an amazing job and I work for them and I love all the colleagues they have there, but for me it's not something fun and having fun is very important.

It gets boring. Yeah, I get it.

I would say we need to be okay with the people we are and that universe of possibilities that we can bring to the table. That's our value.

Yeah, in the end, I think that I have this realization as well, like, it's okay to be an employee. I always say that, you know, people go to speeches on college and as an entrepreneur, and I say, the first thing I say, you know, if you're here and you're worried that you're not an entrepreneur, you don't have to be one. It's okay to be an employee, there are good jobs and there are amazing people that work and we need them. It's totally fine.

Definitely. Thanks for that. It's not that easy. I'm about to write about that right now because I had some experiences. It's not for everyone, and that's OK. And it's not easy because we tend to romanticize the thing about that creating our own jobs. It's very tough. It's very uncertain.

It's not for everyone. And I feel we need to have that very present all the time. Like and that's also the opportunity. Like go and find what works for you.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, also like the media tries to make entrepreneurship like this thing that it isn't, you know. It's hard, it's challenging, it's demanding, and yeah, it's not easy. But I wanted to take just one minute, just before you ask the next question, Nancy, is I wanted to share for everyone that's listening, and if you could read Range from Dave Epstein. It's a great book and it's called Range, Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World, and it's everything about what just we talk here. It's a great book. Take a note of that. and if you can, you read it, it's pretty nice.

We always love book recommendations. We had a couple of good ones last week too.

I really appreciate you going through how you found that balance in your work life. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but just realizing like how you work best, how you stay inspired that it's not just doing one thing, but also like you really enjoy going in, kind of solving the problem or the fire of the time and then jumping out and that makes you feel reinvigorated. I think that's, you know, that's something that not everyone has learned about themselves, whether they're an entrepreneur or not, like how they like to work best. And I was wondering, you know, how with all the things that you're doing, do you define success for yourself? And is it different in your personal life versus your professional, or do they feel like really closely linked?

I love that question.

First of all, because my definition of success keeps changing and that I'm okay with that. I think the important thing is to know what is success for me at each time. I would say that for me, success is being myself, like being an okay with the person I am and to have a life in which I can be myself all the time. For me, that's success. Not need to be somebody I'm not.

That's like freedom for me too. It's very important. And it's not like you were talking about balance. I don't think also the same. There is a finish line of a place where together it's practice. Sometimes you are addressing amazingly and there are some moments of the year of stages in your life in which you cannot cope with everything at the same time or you're not doing it that fine and it's okay also. Like I would say that life is not stable and we need to bear that in mind and that change its part. So I think the most important thing is how, if you have strategies, or at least for myself, what things I learned to do to come back to myself more quickly, for example. And for me, working with my body, for example, when I'm working a lot and I cannot stop my mind because I'm doing a lot of stuff at the same time, and I know if you realize, but I didn't used to pay attention to that, but I tend to get disconnected with my body. And to come back, maybe I can go one round around the corner. But for example, living in the nature for me now, it's a non -negotiable. I live 50 meters from the sea and I am surrounded by trees now here where I live. For me now, that's not negotiable because if I want to go back to myself, I'll go outside, walk some meters, come back or go to the beach and come back and that's it. But also regarding success, something also that is challenging about that is remembering to myself that that's my definition of success. Because sometimes you forget that. Because understand that yours is not the same of most of the people. The thing about, for example, my Taihu, this comparison in which also I think success being myself means having a life or doing stuff not in the same way that most of the people do. And that's okay. Most of the people do. And that's okay.

Wow, I'm actually with a smile on my face right now. I don't have a webcam so you can see, but it's because I lived three years in the woods

in a house like away from the city and it was awesome. And I wanted to go back there and that's success for me as well. And that's so relatable in this sense. Yeah, it's true. The success is not a thing that is actually defined and we can define for ourselves what success is. And for me now, when I was living in this small town, I think a lot of people saw me as a loser because I used to live in the city. I have my office in the most expensive neighborhood.

People think that is success. But as you realize, maybe success is just being happy. And maybe that it is. And you'll be happy being in a city or being away from it. It's up to you, you know? And that's really something that we always have to remember, that I'm successful because this is success for me. Success for me is to be able to take care of my health and to exercise and do the things I like. And that's it, I don't need to prove anyone I'm successful like buying an expensive watch or something. So yeah, I totally relate that. I mean, you gave so much insight and so many words of wisdom for us, but if you can leave us with something that you really take to your life and it's advice that you give us as words of wisdom or something that you like from another person that's told you and you use it. If you can share with the community, it's going to be

really awesome to have these words of wisdom.

Wisdom is a very tough word, I would say. I think I'm having clear that we are all different and that's okay. So there it's like we don't all need the same stuff as we were talking about being an entrepreneur or not or having a job or not. The same happens with our lives. What I would say and what I have, I tend to think a lot about that. It's like we only have one life. I feel we have the privilege to live in an era in which we have much more opportunities. Now you can access to knowledge, to education, to tools for free on the internet, AI, really, it's much easier than ever to go for the life you want to have, whatever that life is, even the job of your life or having your company or living in into the woods, like, and I think the best time to go for the life you want was yesterday. The second best is today, like, what are you waiting? And I think it's related

to this you were saying about living the life for others. The only thing important, or at least that should be important to you, is that you are okay with the life you have. And I think that sometimes we spend so much energy, time, and money trying to look or to showcase a life that most of the times it's a life that we don't even choose or we don't even question ourselves. Like for example, maternity. I lived a lot of lives assuming that I was going to be a mother because I never thought I had the chance to ask me that question and check, hey, this is the life I want to live. I am full of friends that are mothers and I love children. It's not that because people tend to say it's because you don't like children. I love children, but I'm not up to me for my life to go for that project or that kind of life. And I'm OK with that. I was brave enough to have the conversation, to ask me the question. Nobody for most of my life

never told me I can make me that possible. So what I keep thinking, how many questions we are not making to ourselves to check if we are living the life we want to live. It's a good practice, even with AI. If you use Waze, for example, to go to work, well, you're deciding every day to go with the fastest trip to wherever you're going. And you forgot, because it's practice. You use it every day. You don't need to think. You put it there on your car and you drive. But maybe there's one day that you don't want to go fast. You want to go to the best site. And okay. But when we are on our automatics every day, living a life that we were told we should leave all that advertisement devices, tell us we need to leave or consume, you forget to make the right questions. And I think making questions also is a practice. So exercise the muscle of making questions.

Yeah, be yourself.

There's several good lessons in there.

Oh yeah, it's like if you go automatic, as you said, you just be what you're supposed to be, not what you could be. And that's really profound.

I also liked when you said the best time to start was yesterday, because it's true with most things. But you're right, just learning. I think part of that growth journey is just asking ourselves better questions and that never stops.

I know that that makes you a better mentor and a leader too, as you grow through that journey. Well, thank you so much, Maka, for everything that you've shared with us and taught us today. We really appreciate you making time for this. We appreciate the opportunity to be part of this community with you and the opportunity to bring cooperative learning experiences to the community. For those of you listening to this as a podcast, if you want to support Founders Voyage becoming a podcast that produces content more quickly, you can do that through our Patreon and then it can also connect with us on Instagram and YouTube for one -minute quotes from some of our guests. So thanks so much again, Maka, and we look forward to speaking with you again real soon. Have a great rest of your weekend. Same for you, bye bye. Bye, take care.

Thanks so much.

You've just finished another episode of Founders Voyage, the podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. The team at Founders Voyage wants to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We hope you enjoyed your time with us, and if so, please share this with someone else who might enjoy this podcast. You can also support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and by donating to our Patreon. Outdoor music today is Something for Nothing by Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band.