Topical Discussion - Sport Science

Founder's Voyage · Aug 15, 2024

Transcript

SPEAKER_02

00:00:00

If you make a product so successful that it gets banned everywhere, it's probably not going to be very good for your business. and we're going look Elayda Tahan won silver in the team's 10 -meter air pistol Olympic event, one of the two medals that Turkey has so far. This is obviously phenomenal for them and something that they should be celebrated for, but specifically one of the things that we want to talk about is his equipment or lack thereof. Yusuf did not have any specialized gear such as specialized glasses and blinders and ear protectors. I found a link to those online. It seems like those sorts of equipment cost in the hundreds of pounds sort of range. Instead he opted for conventional eyeglasses and just normal earplugs that any of us can get for a dollar.

SPEAKER_02

00:01:19

This seems to be in quite stark contrast with many other sports where more and more equipment both in competition and in training is necessary to stay at the top. We can talk a bit further about other related topics, but I wanted to align this back to entrepreneurship. There are many companies that are innovating in the space of sports science and sports technology, such as Vault Athletics, personalized training app, Boost Surfing, who are developing innovative surf bins, and Fitness Genes, which does genetic testing focused around fitness. Just before we jump into any further dig deeps, I thought it'd good to get you guys and anyone who wants to talk your perspective on companies like this. How are they changing competition? What do you think could be pitfalls or dangers to this type of business? What do you think is the way around which you'd run these sorts of businesses?

SPEAKER_04

00:02:10

So talking about the genetic genes company,

SPEAKER_02

00:02:13

right? Sports science company. So genetic genes, fitness genes, vault athletics, whatever it is, But just like, I want to talk on the general topic to start, and we can narrow in on closer ones.

SPEAKER_02

00:02:26

I've got a list of like three or four other narrowed -in topics.

SPEAKER_04

00:02:29

Because you kicked off talking about the use of equipment versus not equipment, I thought initially you're talking about the company that produces the specialized glasses. Because to be honest with you, I didn't even know that that was allowed in the Olympics. That's pretty incredible to me. Because I do feel like something like that could be seen as an advantage, but clearly it's not necessarily an advantage for everybody. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. The genetic testing thing, I think I feel entirely differently about than I feel with technology, because while technology has a direct application to that sport, I feel like genetic testing that information is going to be monetized and used in all different ways and I also think the other thing to consider is like the mental burden that puts on someone to know that they're it's kind of like IQ testing but to like the nth degree to me somehow I don't know if anyone agrees with that or disagrees with that but if you were born thinking that you were genetically special and like, should be this amazing athlete. What if you weren't mentally prepared for that?

SPEAKER_02

00:03:45

Yeah, there's a movie, a really, really good movie called Gattaca. And it's about this theoretical future where everyone's tested genetically tested from birth. And it's like, you get told you're going to live to 45 years old, probably. And you're not going to be very good at any of these

SPEAKER_02

00:04:00

things. You might be good at these things, all that sort of stuff. And it was very ahead of its time. I think we are getting to a point in technology with the sorts of questions that that movie raised need to be seriously considered because it is now possible to remove certain genes and traits in babies in the womb. It is now the impact of like CRISPR and technologies that you can change genetics is coming out. I don't have any answers for the questions, but I think the questions need to be discussed in depth, because we do find that legislation tends to move much more slowly than technology and innovation. So the impact of what this sort of genetic testing can have on society is gonna be, if not well thought out, is gonna be huge. And I'm sure there will be some very negative effects as well as hopefully positive effects.

SPEAKER_04

00:04:59

Yeah, I'm glad that you're bringing sci -fi movies into this conversation.

SPEAKER_02

00:05:02

I think I can be trusted for that.

SPEAKER_04

00:05:04

I should just say science fiction in general, because it doesn't predict everything, clearly. Isn't the back to the future when they go to the future, isn't that like 2000 or 2004 or something like that? Yeah. So that's always kind of a fun thing, like how long does it actually take for us to evolve as a species?

SPEAKER_04

00:05:24

But I have seen Gattaca and yeah, that was a really interesting idea that they proposed. And I actually feel like that's a good example of a movie that dealt with how you feel about yourself, too. As you probably remember, that character that got, I don't know what they called it in the movie, but extensions in his legs so he

SPEAKER_02

00:05:44

could be taller. So the main character, he was reported from birth as an invalid because he wouldn't live past 30, and then he's like 45 or something in the movie.

SPEAKER_04

00:05:52

Yeah, he's finding his own path kind of outside that. in that. So say you could just going with that line of thinking about age, say you could actually predict how long someone's going to live. I mean, psychologically, like in the medical field, you would talk about the will to thrive. And this is something that like they study in various populations. The vet population is always a good one to study. Sorry, vet as in veteran?

SPEAKER_04

00:06:21

Yeah, but this actually applies to athletes a lot too, right? How much does your willingness to push yourself and to think yourself strong in the situation, how much does that help you form better or survive? So I think that has great application. I don't think I would want to know how genetically incapable I was, if you will, because that would change my self -perception. You wouldn't want that repeated over and over in your life because that would become a limiting belief that you would cling to and many of us already struggle with that. So I think I feel pretty strongly about that. But I do like genetic testing as something that could help you treat diseases or with athletic performance, maybe it could tell you what sort of training you should focus on. That would be more beneficial. I guess I'm like, I don't know if we need genetic testing for that. It could make it that much better.

SPEAKER_02

00:07:29

Well, what Fitness Genes claims is they do research -backed DNA insights and training plans. So the idea is you do get your DNA tested and read and then they use that to say like with your specific set of genes you'll be like benefit more from doing these or like these foods will be more effective for you or all that sort of stuff. So it is interesting like they're trying to apply this testing to specifically the fitness and athletics field. And so far, I think they've raised 6 .6 million, roughly, but they're UK based, interestingly.

SPEAKER_04

00:08:10

I like I sound like one of my mentors at bootcamp, but I feel like they need to narrow their problem. It sounds way too broad. As soon as you say nutrition, my spidey sense starts tingling. So to give you like a really simple example, like every person is going to be born with you have fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers. So the slow twitch muscle fibers are going to be really useful for people that want to do strength, who want to do marathons, and the fast twitch muscle fibers are going to be more useful when you see someone do something that requires an incredible amount of agility and strength. But it's not that simple because you're born with that genetic capacity. And by the time you get to the Olympics, that's going to matter. But for most of us that don't get to the Olympics because you can change that in your body through training, that's kind of the amazing part about the human body.

SPEAKER_02

00:09:14

So, can you specifically train to increase your twitch muscles versus your slow -move muscles or can you decide where you're putting training? So slow

SPEAKER_04

00:09:22

twitch and fast twitch muscle fibers, which you have in every muscle in your body. So you could focus on training that would produce more slow twitch or more fast twitch. For most humans, you want some combination because you need to be able to move really quickly to catch the mug that's falling, but you also want to be able to do a five mile hike. Athletes are going to focus a little more specifically on agility for their sport. So if they start out genetically having a predisposition for producing more fast -twitch muscle fibers, that would be incredibly helpful for them. But I guess I'm like, Like, you go through so many tests, like, do you really need to, like, get genetically

SPEAKER_04

00:10:11

tested to find out because you're going to see that anytime they do, you know, an agility course.

SPEAKER_00

00:10:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

00:10:18

That's interesting. And then one of the other things that I wrote down to go through is the, do you remember those Nike shoes, Zoom Vaporfly Elite shoes? They're the ones that have like specific foam that Nike made and then a carbon fiber plate inside it. And so in studies Nike supported, they're indicating a 4 .2 % advantage to wearing these particular shoes. This became a big controversy for racing. So they're

SPEAKER_04

00:10:50

for running?

SPEAKER_02

00:10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

00:10:51

Yeah. Because if you were saying like the Nike air pump, we're supposed to help you jump higher for basketball, right? Does

SPEAKER_03

00:10:57

anybody else remember that? Yeah. Did that work?

SPEAKER_03

00:11:00

There actually were other basketball shoes that had a mechanism in the heel that actually had a scientifically measured increase in jumping ability. And those actually were banned in the NBA and I believe FIBA as well, so they're not allowed anywhere. Wow. That's awesome. Do you remember what they were called? I'd have to look it up. It's, I mean, it's probably about a decade ago at this point. I don't recall the name of them offhand. I'll see if I can find it real quick.

SPEAKER_00

00:11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

00:11:24

That's interesting. I mean, I think this is tech, even though we're not talking about, you know, something like electronic, but this is technology, like assisting sports. So yeah, where is the line? And does this work for every person?

SPEAKER_02

00:11:41

Yeah. Good questions. But additionally, even though there has been seen this positive impact, at least competitors can come out with... Competitor companies can come out with other relatively similar designs. And so the free market can push down the prices of those so it doesn't become as extreme of a wealthy competitors win more and not so wealthy competitors lose just because of the shoes. But then you've got scenarios where, for example, if the company has a patent on and some traits of it that can make it so that it's like incredibly limited who can actually access that particular technology, right?

SPEAKER_02

00:12:21

And the whole point of sports competition, or at least I would say a large part of the point is to be like, this is what the human body can achieve. Another example, sort of similar technology or similar concept is the laser racer swimsuits that were used in Croatia in 2008 and wearing them at that swimming competition broke 17 world records. They're like full body swimsuits and it ended up being that the organization that runs aquatic events for the Olympics banned full body swimsuits. There's a limit on men's swimsuits have to be between certain lengths and women's swimsuits have to be between certain lengths because people were putting on not just one of these swimsuits, but two or three of these swimsuits to get multiplying effects from them. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_04

00:13:13

Yeah, it makes sense, right? Because the water would be so different against that surface than it would against your skin, right?

SPEAKER_02

00:13:21

Yeah. It also stored some air in the swimsuit, so it would you extra buoyancy, so you didn't have to fight as much to stay at the top. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

00:13:31

Wow. Right. With a muscular body, that makes so much sense. Yeah. Because you know, as when you're diving, you have the BC and you're putting just a little bit of air in it to find that perfect neutral buoyancy.

SPEAKER_02

00:13:46

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

00:13:48

Yeah, that's so interesting. So yeah, so in this link you shared about the Nike running shoes, They're calling it mechanical doping, which I think is really fascinating. They're saying, well, if it doesn't hurt the athlete, you know, we don't allow drug doping because that can hurt that athlete as well. This doesn't hurt the athlete. So that's an interesting layer of that argument that I hadn't really considered. That's a good point though, where is that line where you decide that the technology technology is giving a really unfair advantage. Because going back to the example that you introduced this topic with, with the shooters, you can clearly see that some don't need that technology to have that advantage where it's really helpful to others who know how to use it or, you know, who find it helpful, I should say.

SPEAKER_02

00:14:49

Yeah, absolutely. And I wonder if there's some aspect of if you've trained with this technology, then it's advantageous, but if you haven't, then it isn't. So he was in the military, and so he considers himself a natural shooter. He isn't used to using like a blinder over one eye and a magnifying glass on the other eye and all the big protectors and everything. But for him, it feels like the normal way to do things is just the little ear plugs and obviously his doctor given prescription for glasses, like from an optician. And so it's interesting that the, or I put forward that it might be that if you train with a certain system, it becomes, you need that system to compete at these incredibly high levels. But maybe if you aren't used to it, it's a very different scenario for you.

SPEAKER_04

00:15:46

Yeah, I mean, that absolutely makes sense. Hello all, I hope you are enjoying this episode. I want to ask you, our listeners, if you could give us a review in your podcasting platform of choice. We don't have sponsors and we don't run ads, but we are looking to grow. So if you feel we bring value to your listening experience, please drop us a review when you get a chance. Thanks so much. Now on with the show. I'm sure, you know, some people that are introduced to technology and their sport later on in life, though, I don't consider myself technologically savvy, you know, but maybe if you're like, I always wish this existed, maybe that would make sense for you. Yeah. So where is that line, I guess, where you decide that it's too much of an advantage for everyone that uses it, and they're just above and beyond. And Brian, was it the APL style shoe? Is that the one you're talking about?

SPEAKER_03

00:16:47

Yeah, I actually sent you the link specifically to it, but that is the one. I knew it wasn't Nike or any of the major brands, but yeah, that was the one. I sent you in the Discord

SPEAKER_03

00:16:56

chat.

SPEAKER_04

00:16:57

Okay. I was actually just curious to see, you know, what they cited as like, what was the final straw that made them decide to be in them.

SPEAKER_03

00:17:06

I'd have to do more research. It's taking away the natural athletic ability and actually having a mechanism that physically, it's like having a trampoline in your shoes.

SPEAKER_02

00:17:16

Wow. I wonder how that impacts your company. Like if you start this company with this really innovative technology, you think you, you know, you're going to change the sport, you're going to, you know, have a lot of success, because it's not just like you think it works, but you can prove that it has a positive impact, and then it gets banned in competitive play, I feel like that's a very difficult situation to be in, right? Like if you're starting that type of company, you can you can just get banned out of basically existence. Talking about the swimsuits too.

SPEAKER_03

00:17:50

And that's why it's important to do a lot of market research beforehand. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

00:17:55

Yeah, absolutely. Looks like they re -branded and re -released the shoes for like a local and recreational basketball scenario, but I imagine you have to put the price point significantly lower for that.

SPEAKER_03

00:18:08

I assume so. And I know they never really significantly took off because, you know, basketball shoes in general are often the ones that people buy are not tied to a feature, but they're tied to a person, you know, whether it be Jordan or Kobe or Kyrie, you know, the people buy them typically because of, you know, I want to be like Mike, not because I want to be a trampoline.

SPEAKER_02

00:18:34

Very good point.

SPEAKER_04

00:18:35

What if you're what was that movie we watched with Adam Sandler, the basketball movie? What if you're the main character in that movie, and you're just going around to different basketball courts beating people for money? Does that become their main customer?

SPEAKER_03

00:18:50

You're gonna have to prove that those shoes you're gonna have to basically reskin those shoes and like Nike garb or something like that, because the second you step on a court with those, everyone's gonna call you out on it. Ah,

SPEAKER_04

00:19:04

yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. So anyone who knows anything about the sport knows what you have, right? And they're not interested. Yeah. So that really does kind of blacklist those companies.

SPEAKER_02

00:19:16

If you were rock up just to a recreational game and people like I know that is that would feel like you're being called out

SPEAKER_02

00:19:23

That's so interesting Now the the swimsuits actually Michael Phelps I think it was had like agreements with them when they first came out and so there were a bunch of Holographic images of him in the swimsuit throughout a lot of big big cities So I imagine that is why they very suddenly got quite famous and popular before being obviously, less reduced in their effectiveness.

SPEAKER_04

00:19:50

What was thinking was that that material would have other application, and that there are other water sports that you might use that for, I free diving, that might be amazing for anyone who wants to do something, work or recreation underneath the water.

SPEAKER_04

00:20:12

that might be a really neat material for them to have a suit made out of.

SPEAKER_02

00:20:18

Very good point. Maybe professional scuba divers or something like that might benefit from it. So there are other avenues that you can take these sorts of businesses where it's more applicable.

SPEAKER_01

00:20:28

SPEAKER_04

00:20:28

don't know what you do with the basketball shoes as much,

SPEAKER_01

00:20:31

but

SPEAKER_04

00:20:31

the running shoes had something in them that they had patented that they felt was anti -fatigue. Nurses wear really good shoes. People that are on their feet all day wear really good shoes that are supposed to be anti fatigue. So that also has other application. Yeah. So they just have to find the right application for I mean, I would think it would be fun to have a trampoline in your shoes at least sometimes but might be like walking around with a pogo stick. Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02

00:21:03

It'll be

SPEAKER_04

00:21:04

interesting. Do you remember those shoes that had like one wheel in the heel. The heelies. Yeah, yeah, there you go. They were like, they came out like, you know, when I was an adult. So I have not owned a pair, but I think it's kind of a fun concept that you can just like, put your toes up and kind of skate along. I don't think it was like a perfect design, but it's a fun concept.

SPEAKER_00

00:21:27

May I say something about the shoes? Of course. I tried several times different shoes since I was a professional runner a while ago, honestly. Technology improved, but for instance, in my opinion, there is not enough focus on what is needed because I believe it's more a trend, a technology that goes on. For me, it's not

SPEAKER_00

00:21:57

focus for instance on my need, if I want to improve my run, because maybe there is an R &D somewhere, just a company the others follow, indeed many shoes are almost the same because they copy each other. I don't see a lot of improvement in the sense of the feeling for the runner. At least this is my opinion. Hopefully it will happen something better in the future.

SPEAKER_04

00:22:31

Well, can I ask what aspect of running are you wanting to improve? These shoes have different applications, right? So the running shoes actually looked like a little more suited for like maybe a sprinter than a long -distance runner so that that matters too right so what aspect of running do you want to see shoes be improved for

SPEAKER_00

00:22:57

defeating with the ground definitely interesting thank you

SPEAKER_04

00:23:01

that's subjective probably too I know I'm nitpicking a little bit here but I'll still look him up you know those

SPEAKER_04

00:23:07

shoes that came out that like the barefoot shoes where you have each toe like encased in your shoe, those you know help your foot like get the real feeling of the ground but then they offer like you know little to no support on purpose. You know if you don't want to feel the impact of your strike then that wouldn't be for you but if you do want to improve like your connection with the feeling of running, then that would be for you. And then on the other side, we have those Hoka shoes. I'm kind of slamming them. I've decided I don't think that they're really helpful for people because they kind of have so much cushion that you really kind of stop reading how you're striking the ground. And I don't feel like people realize how they're walking. and so other parts of their body start not feeling well. But I mean, there's just such a scope. So it really depends on like, yeah, feeling is very subjective as well. I like the idea though, that something could make your speed feel more effortless. But that to me, I mean, as someone with really large feet, I think depends on the size of your body, how you strike, what your stride length is, like what your ability to really push off the ground is. So there's like all these other aspects of running you would have to improve too. And it's probably the same with the shooting glasses. I mean, they can help you do certain things, right? But then you have to like really be able to like be in your body and put it in the right position. They're not gonna do it for you.

SPEAKER_02

00:24:59

Yeah, true. It's interesting how shoes seem to be diverging when it comes to things like running in these sort of two opposite directions where you mentioned like the barefoot shoes and then the incredibly well cushioned shoes and they seem to go in like contrary directions. So I think that's super interesting. Now, the last sort of related topic Olympic I wanted to get to today is the enhanced games. I don't know if Nancy, you've heard of this before, but you mentioned earlier how the sorts of technologies that can help competitors they should, you know, it's important that they're safe. Maybe the mechanical doping is fine because it's not bad for the athlete, things like that. So the Olympics bans a lot different drugs. They screen for those drugs after the competition with the intention being of like athletes don't want to win and then lose the win just because they were doping, right? The Enhanced Games is a set of games that are happening next year and are done by a private company and the sort of key point of it is you can take drugs as long as they're safe, right? And so they do, instead of any sort of drug screening, they do health tracking and health testing before each event for each athlete, with the idea being that if you're remaining healthy, you can compete. Right, now I'm not saying I can see your face. I'm not saying this is the right or the wrong thing. I think it's an interesting approach. And I think it's something that we'll see if there is long -term interest in it, you know?

SPEAKER_04

00:26:45

I'm sorry. I'm really bad at having a poker face. I think that's kind of, I think it's

SPEAKER_04

00:26:53

really fascinating. Yeah, my immediate thought was, well, what about the long -term effects on your body? Because sometimes you can be fine and then you won't be fine. I think it's interesting. Obviously, you know, people are going to be participating willingly in this. I think it will be a great source of entertainment for people. In a way, it could be, if they're sharing how they're doing the health monitoring, it could be a source of education for the general public about, you know, how some of these drugs affect people. Yeah, but I mean, I do think it's dangerous, even though it's fascinating. It can be both. because there are reasons why certain things, certain substances are banned, and some bodies are just going to deal with being doped better than others. And not everyone is genetically as responsive too, so it doesn't necessarily give you that advantage.

SPEAKER_02

00:27:53

I think fundamentally we'll see what happens with these games, whether or not they are something that does continue, if it's something that, you know, long -term people consider safe. but I think it's a unfortunate reality of human psychology that we're not good at seeing slow problems. A great example of this is the aerosol sprays that used to damage the ozone layer. We very quickly started to see effects of those and because of it, that is something that we reacted to very quickly. We got banned and it's already massively improved. It's actually directly over Brisbane, or my home state of Queensland.

SPEAKER_02

00:28:36

Then there's slower problems like the disease tuberculosis is an incredibly slow disease that spreads incredibly slowly. And it's killed more people than any other disease, just because it's the slow problems that people don't seem to correctly rate the danger of. If it ends being that all of these substances that the athletes are taking are healthy in the sense of don't stop their heart then and there, but end up long term having very negative effects. That's a whole different issue. But unfortunately, we're only going to see after the fact.

SPEAKER_04

00:29:14

Yeah, that's an interesting point that

SPEAKER_02

00:29:16

you make. Is that true

SPEAKER_04

00:29:17

about TB, about tuberculosis? I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_02

00:29:21

Yeah, it's super interesting.

SPEAKER_04

00:29:22

It's something you have to get tested for here if you work in any school system or... Really? Yeah, they take it seriously about it spreading in schools, at least. That's great. That's really good. Yeah, I don't know what else, when else they test you for it. I've just been tested for it several times because I've worked in schools. How difficult is the test? I was just going to say, it's really simple. They give you like a little tiny pin prick, and then you just have to watch it for a couple days and basically photograph it

SPEAKER_04

00:29:49

and send it to them and show them that you didn't have a reaction to it. Like you get like this big red ring if you did and it would show that you had it um so yeah it's a pretty it's a pretty simple test so maybe we should start doing it in workplaces once a year or something

SPEAKER_02

00:30:08

i don't know in the western world it's been reduced like hugely hugely but we sort of it used i think it used to kill like one in four people in america for a while and And it just, like, we had all tons of antibiotics that work for it, because it was considered a problem at the we had a lot of solutions developed. But it's been, there was a period after sort of success in America, where I think it was like 47 years when no more research and drugs were developed for TB, because, you know, the more well -off countries weren't dealing with it. But now, it killed 1 .3 million people last year, I think it was.

SPEAKER_04

00:30:53

So at some point, we just consider it managed. Yeah, exactly. And funding stops, it stops being the hot disease. Very true. You know, circling back to the long -term thinking versus the short -term thinking with carb loading, Giovanni, I actually think that's a pretty good example, because it doesn't work for everyone. So just like with these games, it would be interesting to see, even if it is dangerous, I do find it interesting to see who actually benefits from that and who doesn't. I don't know that they're really going to showcase that because you really could showcase

SPEAKER_04

00:31:34

a sporting event like that with an agenda of saying, well, shouldn't everyone be doping? aren't these drugs really great? And if it doesn't work for an athlete, then why would they want to compete this way? But yeah, I think it's an interesting thing to consider because carb loading isn't something that improves every runner's performance, but it does in the short term really help some runners have an advantage.

SPEAKER_02

00:32:02

And for the layman, when you say carb loading, is that where you eat a whole bunch just before the run or?

SPEAKER_04

00:32:08

So consume a whole bunch of sugar and in its simplest form, your body's main source of fuel is going to be glucose that it turns into glycogen to feed the muscles. So, you know, just like they tell you with a healthy diet, make sure you eat more fiber, because it's going to be processed by your body more slowly, you're purposefully doing the opposite. You're just I don't know if you've seen the sugar gels that runners will, distance runners especially, will have on them and take in the middle of the run.

SPEAKER_04

00:32:43

They're literally just feeding their body glucose, which in normal life would be a terrible idea, but when you're doing an endurance event like that, you're just giving your body the quickest source of energy you possibly can. Yeah, some people react quite negatively to that. And yeah, I think the sugar hangover part is terrible, as he was sort of indicating. So there's a trade -off there, but it's much safer, you know, that would be just like, I guess, I don't know, would we say diet doping or?

SPEAKER_02

00:33:17

Something like that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04

00:33:20

I'm sure there's a real term for that. Yeah. But yeah, usually in sports or in nutrition, it's known as carb loading.

SPEAKER_04

00:33:27

And there are different programs, you know, that tell you to do it different ways.

SPEAKER_02

00:33:33

Now we are coming up to the hour. We normally wrap up with the words of wisdom question. Fortunately, I have no words of wisdom to give. Do you have any takeaways

SPEAKER_04

00:33:43

or something new you learned?

SPEAKER_02

00:33:45

I learned a whole lot, as I always do whenever I talk with you guys. I think the key takeaways in or a key takeaway in my head around these sorts of things is trying to understand the short -term, the long -term impact, because it is very different of a lot of these sorts of things. It can be very hard, but I think it is super important. And then the other thing is And if you make a product so successful that it gets banned everywhere, it's probably not going to be very good for your business. It's a good point.

SPEAKER_04

00:34:22

Yes, it has to have more than one market. I think,

SPEAKER_02

00:34:26

A, thank you to everyone for joining us on this voyage today, experimenting with a different style. We'll try and get this released relatively quickly and see if this is interesting. but we may in the future try a couple of other sort of specific topic discussions, just based on our research. A couple of examples, like I'd love to dig into how stock options and how shares work within companies sometime. I feel like that's super interesting and not very well understood. Another option is one of my personal favorite areas, which is like space technologies and how I think that's going to change the world across the next 30 years. So if any of those or totally other topics interesting to everyone, please let us know and we'll see if we can talk about them.

SPEAKER_04

00:35:12

Yeah, thank you so much everyone for joining. It's always a pleasure collaborating with you. We hope you have a great day and evening ahead.

SPEAKER_02

00:35:20

Thanks guys.

SPEAKER_01

00:35:32

You've just finished another episode of Founders Voyage, the podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs. The team at Founders Voyage wants to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We hope you enjoyed your time with us, and if so, please share this with someone else who might enjoy this podcast. You can also support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and by donating to our Patreon. Outdoor music today is Something for Nothing by Reverend Peyton's Big Damn Band.