Ross Kolodyazhnyi - Fintech, Web3, and the Future of Hiring

talking with real people and explaining what you plan to do, what you're going to do, what you already did, what you've created. If you fail to speak to those people at short, but if you've got something, you must start talking to these people. And they at least, If won't buy, in 99 % you won't sell them anything, but it will definitely sharpen your vision and your mind and the understanding of what these people want. And by iterating with that, you'll eventually get to the point when someone will buy your product and someone will buy your services and will extremely appreciate your call because that's something that this person needed and looked for years.

Our featured speaker today is an executive leader and entrepreneur over 14 years of experience in fintech and the CTO CPO of Calyptus Web3, an AI based hiring platform that enables blockchain professionals to land a job three times faster. Ross, it's a great pleasure to have you as featured speaker today. Thanks so much for being willing to share your journey with us.

easy life because you helped us and that's why I approach you and that's why I'm sharing that with people because that's one of my parts of contribution to leave my mark and to give some opportunities to people that probably do not have them because not everyone or like a super pack with thrusts behind their shoulders

or wealthy, wealthy parents or any luck.

Building up what you're talking about right now, what are some of the early life events and mentors that really had an impact in your ability to become an entrepreneur from an early stage? Yeah, that's a really great

question, Nancy. And probably, I met a lot of wonderful people through my life. It's really cool. They were super supportive and tried to do their best to help me move through everything and achieve the level of success that I already had. Now, probably more influence I had from the events that happened to me and from my reflection or like a community reflection, my closer type of reflection from that. And these events, I would be more focused on the professional life. These events are like my decision of trying myself in different jobs when I got, I think early years of uni, trying to understand what I like to do, what I do not like to do, and that gave me a lot of understanding.

I think it's so important to find those things that you really enjoy and be able to engage with them so that you have the experience of feeling motivated. If you're going into work thinking, oh, I hate doing this,

you're not going to achieve very much. So I think that's an excellent point, thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about Calyptus Web3 and what you were doing through that platform?

So with Calyptus, I'm a co -founder there and chief technical and product, chief product officer. We are building an ecosystem that firstly, Right now, it gives an ability to get hired or find the right team member two times quickly in the Web3 industry, so the platform specifically dedicated to the Web3 industry. And if someone's looking for a job there or trying to achieve something, the platform and AI to match you with the best opportunity in the industry.

The

beauty of this product is that it builds the

verified

professional identity profile, taking the data using AI from the different sources and from the LinkedIn, CV and so on, and gives the ability to build this ultimate professional identity where you can verify your skills, where you can verify your experience. So basically, it's the ultimate version of TV, LinkedIn profile, of everything that you are able to trust and which the company is able to trust. And by taking the profile and taking the opportunities from the partners that Calyptus works with, Calyptus already works with all major companies in Web3. By applying AI to the open opportunities and your Calyptus profile, Calyptus provides you the matching score which helps you to understand

understand what's the best opportunity for you and help the company understand what's the best talent for them. In terms of hiring, what we want to achieve is that we want to make the hiring process or process of finding a job as easy as possible, because to be honest, and that's one of my main opinions as well, from the point of finding the right talents, dragging them to the team, because for my career, I've been a leader and I'm a leader of a number of digital companies and a number of digital products. And you can have the best idea you could even come up with. You can be the most successful entrepreneur and the most ambitious and whatever you could be. But if you don't have a team, the right people that will stand trains, that I also kind of wanted to cue sort of the building of characters of spending. In average, one person spends like

from three to six months to find a job. This is because something's wrong with the person. It's because the whole process is sending applications, then interview and like multiple interviews, where you basically prove your skills and you basically prove what you did. We use AI to automate all that. And the ideal thing is to erase all the steps. And so when you have the cool looking, verified professional identity from one side, and the opportunity from the other side, and AI match forwardly and work in this team and work in this company without any interviews. That would be the ultimate goal, the most ideal goal, because it's really annoying to go through a lot of interviews and through a lot of applications and so on. And that's the same issue from the side of the company. I've been a CEO or CEO of the company. I must go through a lot of CBEs, even after the recognition of my company, went through the even longer list, spent a lot of time to find the right person. So we're trying to apply AI to get this process more straightforward and less And overall, Calypso is building an ecosystem that gives an opportunity to the people getting

hired and then get their finances properly managed and payments properly streamlined through the employment. Because there's a huge gap between the moment you're getting hired and the moment of you getting paid. It's really stressful, even because of the reason that the person that pays you is someone different that you work with. In the Web3 industry, it's a completely different hassle because companies are paying in digital cryptocurrencies and someone works overseas and wants to receive money or spend money in different currencies. And moreover, Web3 companies have some token allocations and cryptocurrency allocations for their teams and there is no way to manage that properly. it and all these kind of things that gives a stress on the payment side, additional fees, inability to spend this money properly, inability to prove your income if you work in Web3 properly. That makes a lot of sense.

Sure, I think that makes a lot of sense. I can see like what your edge is now, like what really sets you apart, but it did leave me wondering like how did you go about building your book of business, if you will? How did you earn people's trust like I can solve this problem for you? I have this experience but like I can fully serve this capacity. How did you really go about building your book of business in that way?

Do you mean overall, or like just locality specific?

Well, I guess you know, like how slow and painful, but for some of us, it's really slow and painful, and then it just kind of happens that you have enough clientele that can refer other clientele. But did you really have to put yourself out there marketing on certain platforms? Like, what was that like for you?

Yeah, speaking about my product experience with other businesses, you really should go out of your shell and start talking with people, which are things out of what you do. And that's probably the most painful thing that everyone, every founder is trying to put aside and focus on the building the best product, building the best technology that will sell by itself, product leads the company and all of this stuff, blah, blah, blah, and so on forth. I'm a huge advocate of going out of your shell and reaching out to people even before you're going to do something, or even before you're going to create a website or landing page, whatever, just to talk with random people about what you've got in your mind, about your idea and about things that you plan to do. Of you made a lot of research and of course you have a lot of analytics and numbers in your hands. But the trick is that all this kind of big data analytics and all of this stuff is a kind of bullshit, sorry for that. But there are so much data in the world, there are so much data noise that you can literally find any angle that proves your idea or denies your idea. If you would write the search prompt properly,

That kind of just proves any idea, literally any idea, has 50 -50 % probability of being successful. You can find as many statistics and analytics about trends and opportunities, and I can find even more that provides separate, complete opposite justification of your idea. So, any idea is 50 -50 according to analytics, has 50 -50 probability of being successful according to analytics and according to any statistics and trends and have seen all the researches and all the data that is present in the internet and books, whatever, but talking with real people and explaining what you plan to do, what you're going to do, what you do already what you've created, if you fail to speak to those people, but if you've got something, you must start talking to these people and they at least, if they won't buy it, in 99 % you won't sell them anything, but it will definitely sharpen your vision and your mind and really understanding what these people want. And by iterating with that, you'll eventually get to the point when someone will buy your product and someone will buy your services and will extremely appreciate your call

because that's something that this person needed and looked for years, and it helps to change the person's life.

Additionally, I think being willing to put yourself forward like that, it sharpens you and makes you better at the sort of skills that you need. Every entrepreneur needs to be able to discuss their idea with anyone and hopefully convince them of the validity of your idea. It's a skill that's so universally necessary for entrepreneurs, I think. You've worked in the cryptocurrency and borderless payments space for eight years, I believe. That's almost from the beginning. It's like 10 to 12 years old. I know it used to be very Wild West, but I suspect the industry has started to become more organized. What's your view on that?

I would say no, not more systematic than right now.

Take a look at the meme points and you'll see what is even wilder than last time. Yeah, this is the year when I joined the Web3 industry. And I'm extremely motivated and engaged on what's happening in Web3 because it's continuously something new. It's like you're riding a roller coaster every day. But together with that, the fire burns everywhere. And you're riding on a huge speed. But if to get to the point, the main thing that everyone should understand, probably from the 2017 -2018, I joined right before the crazy ICO movement started. And during the ICO, everyone was screaming from any corner that crypto will eat the world, banks will be eliminated, crypto will wipe out the traditional financial system. I hear this, we saw IPS here and there right now as well, but the most interesting and the most controversial result of development of the growth of the crypto industry is that cryptocurrency, the and stable coins are taking broader the tokenized assets. And basically the assets, they are pretty much the same assets and they are pretty the same. Sable coins are pretty much the same money, but just using different technology to kind of run through. So the blockchain technology will be a part of our everyday life, But it will be such part that you won't even notice it works in some way.

That's kind of the most interesting and controversial achievement of the web streaming industry, because I remember when I was approaching banks and approaching companies and we were talking about the partnerships and we about the opening accounts and so on. And what I cannot pronounce is what we did and what I did. The word cryptocurrency pumped people or even kind of made them trembling and they were in extreme fear of what you're doing. It was literally like you were selling drugs or you sell people something unknown and extremely innovative and no one knew anything about that. And that was at the very beginning, but this year, being as a CEO of DCM, I've made more than 15 partnerships with banks, with rolling out the real -time payment system based on the blockchain. And I was going to sign these agreements and be in all these meetings and convincing the heads of the banks to apply this new real -time payment system based on blockchain to simplify payments and to build the international -wide payment systems like a substitution of SWIFT or substitution of SIPA payments or FASTPayments, whatever, more efficient, real -time, and should nearly no cost, and it works on the blockchain. And they were like, oh my gosh, it's fucking innovations that we waited for so many years. Where have you been earlier? I've been right here, pitching the same thing to the same people. And they were like, closing their eyes and closing their ears and trying to run out of the room. Right now, blockchain is a part of the banking and blockchain is part of our life and cryptocurrency is part of our life. Take a look at the Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs. Boomers are investing in Bitcoin and Ethereum paper. Take a look at it.

Absolutely. I think you're really verbalizing the real pains of a teacher, the real pains of anyone that's trying to help a company progress and move forward. Really, people are much more comfortable clinging to staying the same.

Hello all. I hope you are enjoying this episode. I want to ask you, our listeners, if you could give us a review in your podcasting platform of choice. We don't have sponsors and we don't run ads, but we are looking to grow. So if you feel we bring value to your listening experience, please drop us a review when you get a chance. Thanks so much. Now on with the show. So building off of Spencer's question, where do you see this going, like 5 years, 10 years? How much a part of, I guess, the fintech space do you think this will consume? Do you think there will be anything else that will challenge it? It

has a few different angles where it's going further, and in terms of technology, the blockchain will be a part, not the blockchain in a way the Ethereum or any other popular blockchain names, but the way the technology works, so of building the chain of transactions and cryptography around that and so on, will be a part of the everyday life and more and more technology and more and more businesses and companies will integrate that and more and more will emerge that provides this or that angle of this technology into different industries. So eventually we'll come to the point where the blockchain will be integrated in any part the business and especially the business dedicated to assets and dedicated to value movement and dedicated to the money. Why? Because the blockchain is a perfect use case for moving value from one point to another point, from point A to point B with the maximum efficiency and maximum transparency.

And speaking about cryptocurrencies, they will be a part of our speculative crazy life. I'm not thinking about the Bitcoin and Ethereum and the bunch of cryptocurrencies as a specific class of assets. It's rather a world importance on steroids. I mean, you have your miles on the credit card, so it's a miles on the credit card, but kind of super -challenged with ability to transfer value from point A to point B. And well, you can speculate these miles because someone has more miles, someone wants to buy that and so on. Some cryptocurrencies became a matter of assets, like Bitcoin, Ethereum, some cryptocurrencies will eventually reach the point, for me it's kind of a spin -off of everything that happens

with blockchain technology. On the other side, I really believe that blockchain will incorporate a lot of tokenized assets and all assets will run on some kind of blockchain, specifically, or assets will be run on the current blockchains or specific dedicated applications that run, yeah, for the particular asset types and so on. But one point which is important to highlight is decentralized applications and blockchain applications. That's a really cool spinoff that just kind of started to emerge. So the blockchain is 12 years old and cryptocurrencies are 12 years old, the DeFi is 3 -4 years old. And not specifically DeFi, but the decentralized applications and decentralized software. And that's really interesting things that we are going to see more and more, because the complexity of such products, the complexity of these applications is extremely high right now. Because today, everyone can create the website, everyone can create using the lot of modern tools that just cannot provide the ability to click, click, click, and get the landing page and website ready. But you cannot create the DeFi application, but I would like to do so. I would like to have the opportunity to work and to manage what I have in an automatic way, to pay the rent automatically or to distribute the different sources of income to the different accounts automatically and so on. I still need to kind of click, click, click

in my land banking or neobanking applications. It's cool they're becoming more beautifully looking and smoothly developed, so it's in the modern UI practices, but they are still not so interconnected. And there is a movement of open banking, of but I don't think it's staying. I think that the true future is in decentralized applications, connected, integrated decentralized applications. And as blockchain will be integrated in any part of our lives, more and more smart contracts, decentralized applications will emerge and automate our daily life with incorporation of AI, with all these digital movements, our world will eventually become more and more digital. And that's really cool thing because we've

got some stuff to do. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

I think it's going to be an interesting path forward across the next five to 20 years. We'll get to see how cryptocurrency and AI will change the society we all live in and how we go about different parts of our lives. Some things I imagine will become easier whilst other things may be harder. Now, one of our listeners, Guillermo, he had a question that he wanted to ask. Guillermo, do you want to take the mic?

Hi, how are you? First, like you as a founder and as a CEO, how important do you think it's to be technical? How many times as a product developer or as a have you program or have you chosen the stack and how you see that really impacts the product delivery, right? Because I've seen that that's in some technological endeavors is super important. So how important is for you to be a technical person when doing something like this, to be able to implement it?

That's one of the topics that I'm advocating across the communities, and by doing these

talks, you must be technically educated, you must be a technocratic person if you want to succeed in the digital world. You must understand how everything works, and not talking about being a developer, but you must speak with the developer in one language. It's not necessary for you to be able to write a code, but it's necessary for you to understand how the code works, how the system works overall. If something happens, why it doesn't work properly, what time it takes to develop a certain part of the system or a certain part of the product, or what tool or technology to use.

Because it's pretty much simple. You don't need to know everything. You need to focus on the best cases and the best practices in your industry. And you can use that as a recipe for things that you do. It's probably the same thing as you cooking, if you like to cook. I like to cook a lot, but I'm not doing a lot of dishes. I know my favorite things that I do. I some recipes, I know some spices, and know how to do stuff, and mix stuff, and that's it. And shouldn't know everything in all the technology. But in order to be successful in the digital world, you must understand how everything works. And that comes from personal experience. That's not something that I read somewhere on the articles or in the social media or whatever.

It comes from a personal experience because I've started from the banking and jumped to the digitalization of the industry and at first I've been doing everything manually by my hands and trying to figure out without any theory in my mind and just doing stuff, Talking with, trying to talk with developers, trying to solve the issues around me. I was young and extremely motivated. I'm still extremely motivated, but unfortunately not young anymore. And I was trying to solve a lot of things around me and I understood that the majority solutions, it's all in the business. Inefficiencies can be solved by the technology. And I literally can't get my head around how to do that properly. While speaking with the developer, I engineered things. I was kind of feeling like a baby that tries to put something in the right place. And that was extremely annoying to me. And after some time of embarrassment, I just sat and put a lot of information about the programming languages, about the way how different systems work, and started to learn JavaScript, I to learn Python, I started to learn PHP, I started to develop things by myself, e -commerce stores, websites, SaaS products. And that's everything without the AI. That's everything, just kind of having books and the Internet, of course. And even without a lot of information on the YouTube, because back in the day, there was not so much information on that particular topic. And this was extremely hard, and I spent a lot of personal time on that. And right now, it's extremely easy, because literally the majority of work you can explain to yourself. I still write some code, and I still can fix some stuff, but right now it looks for me Like, I'm writing the right prompt to Claude or to Chai -DPT. I like Claude more right now than Chai -DPT, but AI

produces some kind of code or some piece of result to me. And I like to think about AI as a clever intern that processes books, but it's dumb. It just gives you what you brought from somewhere, and you must have expertise and knowledge to assess whether it's going to work. You're just fixing that, testing that, providing the right direction to it, and eventually you come up with the the right the right product. And so that's where AI couldn't go anywhere, because if you educated yourself enough and got some expertise in the topics that you want to achieve, AI will help you to multiply, to leverage your idea, multiply, to leverage your capabilities. If you're dumb as AI, so you will be just an addition to it and you won't go anywhere. It will kind of hit you with bold and general answers and it's going to be a new value net. Yeah, I just wanted to summarize everything. My strong push is to convince everyone to go technical and to learn at least... the ultimate ideal option would be to learn at least one programming language without any AI and go in old school and learn at least one programming language. Probably the best one would be Python, the easier one, or going more like JavaScript,

if you want to build something, or if you want to go to the lower level. Try out to do some stuff by yourself without the help of AI. Just kind of to start from scratch and catch all the issues that you could probably find out.

Well, great, great advice in general. And then really great analogies, especially the one about cooking, because that's the whole like, should you specialize yourself? You know, I think this is a broader topic that a lot of people struggle with. like how far down the rabbit hole do you go specializing yourself versus making sure that you can understand, you know, the different universes and kind of flex what you were doing. I think you addressed how Calliptus is doing a bit of both of those. How far, you know, into the broader spectrum of serving your clients like your job applicants do you think you will go? I know you said you want to help them with that financial transition, which I think is amazing. But what you said about helping them upskill, do you think you'll just help them connect with other places and sources that can do that? Or do you think you'll start offering courses? Like, what do you picture for the future?

To be honest, Calypsos already provides the ability to upskill your

professional profile and that's something that already existed on the Kalyptos platform at Kalyptos even before I joined the learning direction and specifically dedicated to the Web3. I in there and Kalyptos provides all of the, specifically right now there are the programs dedicated to Solana, blockchain development and certain blockchain development, a lot of people already took the advantage of that, developing their skills in this direction. And that's a really right path of helping people get their head around how to do things and how to be more professional and successful by continuously learning. Yeah, definitely we'll apply more force in that as a platform.

I think that's incredible. It's really, really cool that you are providing that learning environment. I'm a robotics engineer and I find that blockchain technology and software development can be very difficult to wrap your head around. But I wanted to take a little bit

of a different tack to this question. We've talked a lot about blockchain and cryptocurrency, but Calyptus Web 3 also uses AI, which is quite a big buzzword at the moment. And I think a lot of those discussions about AI have a great deal of fear mongering, particularly around bias and ethics. What I'd like to get your perspective on is how a company can operate within AI, or with AI, in an ethical manner. With the concern for bias slipping into the data, what are your thoughts on how to mitigate prejudice from AIs?

Can you explain what you mean in terms of ethics?

Sure, actually relevant to you. I've heard that when evaluated purely by AIs, people with less conventional British -American names are less likely to get a role, even if they us as, or even more qualified than other candidates that do have more stereotypical male UK names. So you don't want to miss out on a highly qualified candidate just because they don't have a Western last name. How do you avoid that in Kalyptus Web3?

In terms of Kalyptus platform, we developed the really sophisticated model focused on the skills and focus on your experience, industry knowledge, on the basics that should be used to make any decision about finding the right person and finding the right talent to the company. And that's specifically my way how I am looking for people to join the team and how I interview people, how I find balance for different companies and for different products, things like that. Because I don't think that anything else matters rather than your abilities and your knowledge, your skills that you have, and this really, really goes for me, since that someone is judging any other person by the name or by any other thing, except how crazy world it

brings to the public discussion. And that's the particular attitude that Calypso works and establishes the basics of the product. And therefore, I see personally, it's one of the most unique approaches on the market. Because personally, I was looking, and it's really cool when you build a product that solves your problems, solves your pain. I was looking at products that will give me the understanding about the skillset and about the abilities and the professional setup of the person and assess the skillset against the required sensibilities and required open opportunity, open the job that we have at the company. That's what on me should matter. Going through the AI stuff, artificial intelligence is just a statistical model. It's just an enhanced Excel spreadsheet, let's say, that knows... It's not the right word. That has a spreadsheet that has specific probabilities for the words, what words to put next after the specific words already in the content. And that's it. That's how large language models work. Huge itself spreadsheet with weights and probabilities

attached to the specific words. It's not specifically words, it's only tokens, but anyway. That's really simplified how everything works on that side. And the issue is, it doesn't know what is better, right? It just puts the word next to the existing word. It depends on the data that you train this specific model of AI. If you will train this specific model on the biased data, when someone doesn't like non -native names for the particular country or area or culture, it will be biased, as well as any other software. that. No one should blame the AI. I'm sure there will be biased AIs that will discriminate, let's say, but actually they're not discriminating anyone. The software developers are discriminating.

Something you led off with, which is totally different than what we're talking about right now. You were saying that you are in a co -working space because it's challenging to work at home because your daughter is super curious about what you're doing which is great but how at this point in your life do you find that balance between your work, your family life, and the other things that you're passionate about?

To be honest, I don't

know. I

can't find the balance and that's maybe the most honest answer. Maybe the second most honest answer after the center

about how to pronounce my surname. To be honest, all on my opinion. I've tried to find a work -life balance, whatever. In my opinion, you can't. You must focus on something else. And I choose, given my background, given that I came from nowhere and had really basic things in my I

want

to

completely

secure my family from seeing what I've seen, what I've experienced. And given that I really want to put a mark on the world and help people to have a better life, I must sacrifice some things in my life, so unfortunately these are personal things and my hobby, my personal life and so on and so forth. With the coronavirus, which is cool, is the mass adoption of the remote way of working and the ability to be extremely flexible and hybrid. I wouldn't say that I'm completely remote, but the ability to be a hybrid in your work. I'm all physically exist. I can find the spot, whether it will be rework or any other room, which is good enough to focus on something. I can kind of dedicate myself to bring a lot of value to what I do and bring a lot of value to the world. But getting back to the point, you'll never be world -class if you want to reach some point. And after reaching some objective, reaching some target, always, and I had plenty of that, you must and you will do some kind of retrospective and thinking around what you've got, what's next and so on and forth, and that will be some kind of a tweak and trying to get back to your balance, just do not die and do not burn out and die instantly. It only depends on your ambitions and your objectives in your life. Want to get successful, want to change the world, want to get wealthy or whatever, want to create something big and impactful? So you must work during a head down and put as much as you can on a stake to achieve that. If you want to work life balance and you want to hang out there, you want to have hobby, you want to have any other stuff and so on, go and find the job that will provide you a level of income that you will be okay with and take your time to do any other stuff. Of course, you can tell that, hey, I can make my hobby and it will be my work and my hobby will be my business and so on. But once the hobby turns to the business, it's not your hobby anymore, it's a business, It's a work, and that's completely different vibe.

I really appreciate the honesty and bluntness you've provided in your answer there.

Sometimes you'll read online about people who've like achieved a huge amount of success and will say, to succeed, you need to meditate for an hour each morning, followed by half an hour of affirmations and then another hour of exercise. When I think during the harder parts of their journey that they worked through, they worked and worked and worked some more to get to their success. I think that often is the requirement for the sort of goals set within entrepreneurship, not to focus on work -life balance, but maybe to take it extreme in regards to working.

It's like a... It's overtime. It's 99 % of entrepreneurship. If you want to be a successful founder, you just need to work hard. Do not read any stories about like a quote -punched the successful founders that raised billions and have five social media channels up -to -date each hour and 10 podcasts and so on and so forth, they probably came out of the trust

from behind them or like a wealth and so on and so If you're coming from nowhere, ready for hard work if you want to achieve

something. Thank you so much. Now we do have one particular question we'd like to end on and I want you to interpret it as makes the most sense to you. However, the question is, what would be the words of wisdom you would like to leave us with today? This can be something someone else has told you, or something you've read, or something you came up with yourself.

The only thing and the best thing that you can do is go and try to sell it. Go with people about your Go speak with people about your problem. Why do you suck? What do you have right now?

Get out from your shell and try to tell everything as it is, honestly, everything. putting on a table all your secrets and commercial stuff and so on, because no one cares. No one cares about your idea, no one cares about what you have inside, no one will do anything. But eventually you will get back with the understanding what to do next. And where the magic is, it's not even what people will tell you, it's when you hear yourself talking and you hear yourself talking about this problem, you hear this problem and your mind, your brain processes that. And it's like talking with a person, talk with yourself in the mirror, it will also help you to solve the issues that you have. But the 90 % of issues and problems of the businesses and of the founders are in sales. So go and sell your product, sell your services, and you'll open it under a box of interesting secrets that will surprise you.

Awesome, thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Ross. We really appreciate all of the time you've spent with us today, and thank you for going over just a little bit. We really value everything you've shared with us from your personal and professional journey and really taught us today.

We feel very fortunate to have met you and to be part of this community with you. If you have anyone else that you think would benefit from going through this experience of being interviewed, kind of thinking about their journey reflectively, definitely feel free to connect us with them. And if other people want to reach out to you to get to know you and what you're doing better, what's the best way for them to do that and stay in touch with you?

Yes, as Nancy mentioned, I really like talking with people, as I just advised, I'm going out of my shell and talking with people, not only selling, but also getting feedback and trying to understand problems around the world and problems that people have.

That's also fuel for my future ventures and for future products that I'm going to build don't look and go to print in this world. And I really like, I really would like that anyone who has enjoyed this conversation or if it will be recorded and put somewhere, who will be enjoyed that. I really encourage you to go to my LinkedIn page and connect with me, ask questions, as many As many you can, as many as you want, happy to advise how to get up your product, your company and get the ball rolling in your business, go to my LinkedIn, check out my Twitter, that's probably the best channels that I have, they're the most up -to -date, I always online, it's or percent probably, and be happy to talk with you people.

Wonderful, we'll definitely advise people to connect with you on LinkedIn. Thank you so much again, and we hope you have a great evening and a great rest of your weekend.

Glad to be with you, I've had so much fun. Thank you, Ross, absolutely amazing.

Take care, we'll talk soon. ♪♪♪

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