015 - What happens in our kids' body and mind when they lose control? - With Mercedes Oromendia

Welcome to the podcast. Today we will address one of the most pressing questions, what happens in our kids body and mind and in ourselves when they are losing it and when we are losing it. And also ways to calm ourselves and helping our kids regulate when they're starting to spiral down. In addition to that, we will address also some parenting expectations versus reality and parenting each children differently from one another. And we'll touch on the reality of having an adopted or foster kid. So a lot of topics today. We'll do that with our guest Mercedes Aromindia.

Dr. Mercedes is a trilingual biocultural psychologist with expertise in parenting, children and family and trauma. She has experience in helping parents develop the skills and tools to parent with joy and ease. She has worked with a wide range of parents from migrant farm workers, billionaires, adoptive parents, foster parents and more. Currently, she is the chief clinical officer at Manatee, a pediatric mental health startup supercharging the traditional therapy model with tech enabled support for kids and families. The app makes it easier for parents to actively participate in their child's mental health journey, which I think is wonderful. So without further ado, let's welcome Mercedes on the podcast. Welcome to Parenting the Intensity, where we'll talk all about how we can drop the general parenting advice that doesn't work with our emotionally intense kids anyway, and let go of the unrealistic expectations society puts on us as parents. Together, we'll find solutions and ideas that work for you and your kids. Chances are deep down, you know what they need, but you need a little encouragement to keep going on harder days and permission to do things differently and help you fully trust that you already are a wonderful parent to your exceptional but challenging kids. So welcome to the podcast. Welcome, Mercedes. I'm really happy you're here with us today, especially since the topic that we will discuss is probably the most requested one, like both topics basically. We'll cover the things that might more ask about, which are to help our kids calm down and able to calm down ourselves, and in addition, having also the information about why, what is happening. So I'm very excited to dive in that with you today. And I love talking about this. So thank you for having me.

Glad to have you. But before we dive in that topic, you specialize with supporting foster and adoptive family. So I wanted to address that specifics in part because I do have a program that I do have a program that addresses the story of a child to help understand what's happening and the triggers and things like that. And I know, and it's in the program, that it's not realistic for everybody. Not everyone can go back to the pregnancy or birth of the child, even if, like sometimes you adopt it and you know all those things, but sometimes you just don't know. So I would love for you to address that specific of raising a child you might not know the entire history and medical history of. Yeah, absolutely. And you don't know it. And our brain likes to make, you know, fill in the blanks. We don't know what we accidentally fill in the blanks without even realizing it. I think that's something we need to be very mindful of too. So we are the things that we don't, we may just be jumping to conclusions quickly based on our own history or based on what we read, maybe on the little information we do have about the child or what we assume a child that's adopted from this specific situation may have experienced. Yeah. So can we like expect the child to have more trauma than they actually add, for example? Exactly. So as you know, I'm a psychologist and just to give you an example, I'm changing some details for privacy sake, but I had a, I mean, I was working with a three-year-old that was recently placed with a mom. So he was from foster care here in LA and he was placed with a parent that didn't really know him yet, right? It had been together for a week. So I think imagine now you have a three-year-old with you. Wow. Really? Yeah. Wow. And so you're really trying to understand who the child is and you're drawing a lot of conclusions. Every little decision the child makes, right?

Every little movement thing that they do or don't do. And this child came to my office and grabbed a knife and the mom, a play knife and the mom goes, see, look, he's being aggressive. And I said, well, let's wait and see what, let's take a minute, right? Let's take a deep breath and see what he does. What this child ended up doing was he grabbed up pretend, we had an opportunity, a plastic cake that had different slices and he cut the cake and asked, you know, Dr. Mercedes, do you want vanilla or chocolate? And then asked the foster parent, do you want vanilla or chocolate? And gave it to us. That's very pro-social. Really? A three-year-old, it's great. And very connecting. Yeah. Like just grabbing that knife for this foster parent jumped to, oh my gosh, I know this child's history. They've been, you know, all these things that have happened, they've been abandoned. They witnessed domestic violence. They've been victim of violence, perhaps. This means that, oh, they're going to be aggressive, right? But if we took a minute to just see, maybe the child will show us, maybe he will be aggressive and then we need to manage that and respond to those needs. Maybe he won't. We have to give, you know, slow ourselves down, hold ourselves so we can give the child the opportunity to have these moments of joy and. Sure. Sure. It's like any children, we need to leave them the space and a chance to express themselves basically and show what they really want, what they really need. Exactly. And even if, you know, if he did, you know, this child grabbed the knife and did something that was more aggressive, then we would probably saw it somewhere and then we would address it and what's going on. And yeah, it makes sense. Suddenly a week before he was in a different setting and now there's different rules, different parents, different smells, different sounds. I would be frustrated. I would be. For sure. That would be completely understandable too, but it's not because we are. It's interesting because it can apply to so many contexts that sometimes we're expecting kids to do something and we're projecting. Oh, so much. We, a lot of the time we do, I mean, and this happens with bio kids too. That's why labels are so concerning. Right.

When you say, oh, yeah, this is the quiet one and this is the feisty one. Sure. And we do that. Our brains are naturally wired to categorize. Yeah. It's easier to understand the world that way. Exactly. So that's not bad when we catch ourselves. We don't have to say like, oh, that's bad. I feel shame. I feel, cause that's just going to make us. No. More. No. No. We tag ourselves as a bad parents, which is also a tag, which is not good. Those tags. Exactly. So then thinking, okay, wait, let's hold on a second. Sure. This child can be the spicy one, right? Or we can, but what else, what else are they not this or what else can I call it? What other labels can I use intentionally? Yeah. Right. Then parents might use labels that are, they might think it's funny or they might think that it fits, you know, for me, when I was growing up, my dad very lovingly would call me the crazy one. Cause I were five kids and I was creative and I love coming up with, you know, put on puppet shows and do things with my cousins. And I was like the ringleader in that. It was leadership skills.

But when I heard it for me, it was crazy, crazy. Right. And so really being careful what words we use. Yeah. Creative or leader would be better for sure. But then even those sometimes, and I would say mostly creative might not, although, but like leader, then sometimes it forces you as a kid to always be the leader. And when you're not feeling it, like you, you force yourself to live up to that label too. So even the positive ones sometimes can have downsides. The kind one, right? You're so kind. You're so motherly. Women tend to, girls tend to get that one so much. You're so caring, so kind. Sometimes I don't want to be caring. Sometimes I want to focus on me.

And is there room for that? Right. Or do I have to be always the one that's, yeah, my younger sibling or yeah. Definitely. And I agree like that applies to, to bio kids also. Like I can definitely say that when my older two were little, my first one was not like, he's not really, when he hurts himself, it doesn't hurt. Like it takes a lot of pain for him to feel pain, like a lot. And so, you know, when we are ever for kids are often, we're like, are you okay? But then I kind of got used to not even ask because it was just getting up and running, running out again. And like that was normal. But my second one is highly sensitive. So it was a completely opposite experience, but at the beginning and was kind of not expecting how she would react because I was so used to a kid that would not feel pain at all. It took me a little while to adjust for that because I was not expecting those reactions. So I think that's a very small example, but it can apply in so many contexts. And a very real example, right? The second one is never like the first one. They're no same. And so it doesn't matter how many kids you have, right?

You've never copied and pasted. So you're always going to be learning new things and you're different. You're a different parent and you're in different experiences that have happened to you. And so how you respond to their needs are different. You know, it's different too. Yeah, definitely. And I feel the movements so like that we see a lot that we should treat our kids the same, which for me makes no sense because no their kids are the same. So I would make sense to treat them the same. Like we need to treat them like equitably, but not equally. Like that doesn't work. Yeah. And I mean, treating them the same, what that does is it just shows them, I don't see you.

It doesn't matter who you are, what you need. Right. And if you think about your two children, the one, you know, let's say if you say, okay, when they fall, I'm going to ignore the first time. If they keep crying after one minute, then I'm going to respond. Great. The first one's going to feel that maybe you're being overbearing. Stop it. I'm fine. I don't feel like, you know, maybe they're not even crying. They're like, no, they're not crying. I'm fine. Just stop. Like, yeah, leave me alone. I just want to continue playing. And maybe you, then you start that push pull relationship and overbearing and feeling like, what is this? Like, does she think I can't do this? I feel fine. Should I be more concerned? Right. Insecurity, things can start happening. And then for a younger one, maybe she feels, you know, why did it take her so long?

Does she not seem really hurting? Like, this is really difficult and I wish you were here sooner. Right. And so you missed the boat on both just because it's not. Definitely. Definitely. So like adjusting to each child and like, I can say now that I have a third, she's kind of in the middle, but it depends on what. My two firsts were so extremes that most of the time the third falls somewhere in the middle, but she's still different than the two other ones. Exactly. And it's definitely like, it takes, I was kind of forced into parenting them differently because they're so different. But I find when our kids are like, it's not always the case. Often kids are not that different. And so it's easy to try and do the same thing. And then it's tricky because then when they get a little older, they'll start saying, right, it's not fair. And I think that's part of why the parents do it is because they don't, the parents don't want to feel they're being unfair. So the first step is doing that work yourself and knowing, you know, being comfortable. No, I'm doing this. It is actually fair, right? It might not be the same. Like you're saying equity and equality is two very different things. And I I'm doing this because I believe this is the best thing for this child. And you could say, you know, you're right. Your brother was able to bike to school by themselves when they were your age and you can't, but remember we're still working on those skills.

When you went to the store the other day, you forgot your wallet there. So that shows me you're not quite ready yet. Like we're working let's work on that until, right. You will eventually, no doubt. And then there's things that you do before your brother, right? And so really helping them understand that development is not linear and they won't always do the same, but no, like it's fair. You know, it doesn't have to be the same and it won't be the same. That's never really the expectation. No. And like telling them that also helps them understand themselves better and understand the fact that being different is just normal, which is, which is huge. So I would love to dive into the main topic that we were here. And I know is the one that is the most in demand, which is why our children are acting, how they're acting. And of course, like the triggers, there are multiple triggers that can happen, the multiple reasons, multiple like history of why, but still there's a reaction in the body that explains why children are reacting very intensely. So that's what we're addressing today. So can you explain to us what's happening in our children body when they're just out of control? Yeah. And I think what's happening in our kids and what's happening for us, right. It's always an interaction. So I love using the Dan Siegel's for a hand brain model. Have you talked about that before with your list? Okay. So Dan Siegel is really an expert in child development and has a great way of explaining. There's some really helpful YouTube videos.

I can share the links with your viewers later, but it's really helpful. And I use it with kids too, to explain it. And I use it with parents and now I'll, you know, I'll explain a little bit more. I'll try to do this, not visually, but so use your hand to explain the brain. What we know is the prefrontal cortex, so this is by your forehead, really is where, what makes us human, right? It's what helps us think, plan, be able to inhibit our behaviors. So right now I would love to go, you know, for breakfast, it's early morning here in Los Angeles. I would love to just have, let's say a chocolate cake. That feels great to me, but why am I not doing that for breakfast? Because I'm thinking, rationally, okay, I'm going to stop. Maybe I'll have that for dessert tonight, but you know, maybe I'll just have salad, you know, right now I'll have something healthier for breakfast. That's my prefrontal cortex thinking logically. Or when I get mad, maybe I do want to run away sometimes and I get upset, but I don't do it. Right. Or if I'm talking to a friend and I'm getting frustrated, I can calm myself down. That's all your prefrontal cortex. So that's the biggest part that we're the human, the animals that have the biggest prefrontal cortex, and that is behind our forehead. And we represent that with our fingers, if you're holding your hand up. And then we have the palm of our hand, and this is the back of our brain. That's what we call the reptile brain. And that's much more emotional. That's reactive, right? That's that fight, flight, or freeze, or now we added the fawn.

So now there's four F's. Fawn, so fight as you're going to go fight, freeze, the very, but fawn is really, you're going to really, in a sense, fall and try to please the person. So you're really going to try to create, like enamor yourself with that person to feel safe. And that's another way that we respond to these things. So normally you have that part of your brain, you're going to have that reaction, right? So you can imagine if you're talking to a friend and they say something that hurts your feelings or you're feeling reactive, you're like, I know. And then you can start calming yourself down. And so your hand closes, everything is working together. So you're still feeling- The fingers are closing on the impulse reaction, basically. Exactly. You're still feeling the, it's not that you're not feeling this, you know, what happened, or if your child hits you, you're going to get, you're going to feel defensive for a second. You may want to grab your hand or you can, someone hit you. That is a personal offense and that can feel painful and hurtful. Then you calm yourself down. You engage your prefrontal cortex and you're like, oh, there are only three. Okay. What's going on? Deep breaths, you engage, you kind of close your, you know, you're engaged. So you close your hand in the sense that your brain is all engaging together and you're able to just take deep breaths.

That's the ideal situation. Then something happens, but when you call it, you know, you flip your lid. That's when you can't, your fingers are up and you can't access those fingers. So you can't access the prefrontal cortex. You're not thinking logically. A clear example for me is when I'm running late and I'm worried and I can't find the keys. They're right there. I can't see them. My brain's not thinking logically. That's what I'm, right? I'm being clumsy and forgetting things. That's, that's because I'm slow. I'm not thinking clearly. That's when things start to spiral and everything bad happens at the same time. Exactly. 100%. And that's exactly what happens, not just to us, but also for the kids. Right? So like that's something that very much happens to kids. And when they're feeling regulated, they can recognize they're feeling like, okay, this makes sense to me. I can access. I remember my coping tools. I can go to my calm corner.

I can ask for a hug, right? All those things that will teach them. But then when their lid is flipped, there's no calming down. And, you know, I had a great supervisor one time say it's, and it's like trying to rationalize with a child when they're having a seizure. You would never do that. You would never talk to a child. You would triage. You would support their safety and wait to have a conversation until after the seizure. You know, they can't think logically, right? They can't access their brain at that point. But they're so dysregulated. Yeah.

I love that you said you did that parallel. And I think that's very important to remember. And something that we so often don't do as parents is just not talking in those moments. And I'm totally guilty of that. Like I've been trying hard not to, but it's so hard sometimes. And I think there's also like that level when they're just starting to lose control, you still sometimes can get them back while you talk. But at some point, it's pointless to talk. But that little like when the flip is when exactly you should stop talking, sometimes it's hard. Yeah. And so there's a couple of things we can trick, not tricks, but strategies I can teach you that might help sometimes. And you know, your kid best, right? So these are always what I say is I'm a partner with parents.

I'm never going to tell you exactly what to do because I don't know. We're always just experimenting and trying different things and learning from our kids. But something that is really important is to know when your lid is flipped because then you're not going to be able to access who you want to be as a parent. That's when you're going to say and do things you want to take back. Yeah. But when you go to bed at the end of the day and you're like, shoot, that was a very bad parent today, or I regret that thing. I'll do better tomorrow. And then you start again because your lid is still flipped. Exactly. Right. And so what I love saying sometimes to kids is like, you know what, my lid, because you're modeling this, right? My, oh, I'm getting close and you could have your own term of it. My lid is about to be flipped. I don't want to say something or do something I'm going to regret later. I'm going to take a little break. I'll come back. I love you. Obviously, safety is first, right? If they're safe. You're just like, I'll come back because you're going to come back. I love you. You want to reiterate that.

But right now I need to take care of my, I need to calm myself down because this is not going to work. This is usually when parents will say something like, no TV for a year or something even more hurtful sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of labels might come up. You're always doing this or you're never doing that. Exactly. Or why did you do all these like, that's when shame, because it comes out of fear for parents too. Parents are in fear. Yeah. And we've fought, like we fast run into like, if they do that now, they're never going to be functioning adults in a later life. Exactly. Now our brain runs so fast too. Yeah. This means that then they're going to end up in prison. But, and then that, you know, that's, we're out of control. Exactly. And for kids, what I like to do is I just actually have a hand gesture. So parents use that too, right? With our kids, it's like, and sometimes that will cause, and the kid might say, yes, and it's because you might be in an argument and then you just lift up four fingers and ask, right? And you could do it in a little kind of like, and the kid might say, no, like, or yeah, actually. Okay. Let's stop now before you, you know, you say or do something, you regret. You want to talk about the, you know, this before when they're regulated, you never want to first introduce any concept at that point. Like that's not going to work. And I would say also that when we're in that stage, we give consequences that make no sense, but any consequences that we want to give in a child that is not regulated, we'll just, most of the time escalate things because they are not able to control what's happening. So giving consequences, then it's just, it's just putting oil on the fire. It's not helpful at all. Yeah. No, not at that point. Exactly. You're just, and at that point, the goal is to regulate them. And when you regulate, so you're, you were talking about when they're in that zone, right?

In between. Yeah. And it doesn't mean we want to leave them alone when their lid is flipped. You can help them regulate. What it means is this is not the time to teach them. No, it's not the end and you explain how the brain function. And you're triaging or you explain them why you're mad. This is not the time to explain why you're mad and they should have done the dishes and their chores. Like they said, this is not the time. So when their lid is flipped, the number one priority is let's get them regulated so that we can address what happened. Right. It's not, some people confuse this and think, oh, you just regulate them, give them hugs and then everything's fine. No, no, everything is not fine. And you can connect with them, support them. Right. So it's that complexity of life. We can't just do everything so mechanically. We first have to recognize they're human, they're hurting, they're struggling.

Let's support them there. And then yes, absolutely we need to address what happened. And I find that what's often hard is that we don't take the time. We don't like in life, there's so many time struggles. We're so often running that we feel that we cannot stop to do those things and we cannot like we are, or we're doing them just in order to make things go faster and not really to connect with the child. That's excellent. Yeah, exactly. And the time go faster. That makes it so tricky to really get everything done. Right. A lot of times these things happen in the morning or at night. So that's trying to get out, you know, we have to go to school. I have to go to work. I can't be late or at night. We have to, you know, you have to get your sleep. I need, I still have to do all this work that I need to get done. So please just go to bed. Yeah. Yeah. But what we know helps is for again, for most kids, not for every child. So you want to really know your own child. One thing is just grounding exercises. So bring coming back to the moment, right?

Where are you? Because when their lid is flipped, they're not even thinking about what's around them. So that can look like, Hey, give me your hand. And you put, you know, a hand, their hand on your hand and you sandwich it. You know, like, this could be if they're a little younger, you know, a teenager might say choice words for you. They might not want to do that. They might not want to do that. But for younger, right? And like, Hey, let's do a hand sandwich. And like, I love you. You're safe. You're here. We'll figure this out together, making eye contact, coming down to their level, not screaming. When someone screams at you, your lid almost always gets flipped. Yeah, that's very scary. Yeah. It's an automatic way. Even if, and I do, I often tell that to my own children who does scream sometimes, like, you know, when you scream, I hear scream. I don't hear what you're saying. And that's the same for children when we scream, they don't hear what we're saying at all. Like we're screaming, whatever we're saying, they don't understand what we're saying. And it's like getting up and the opposite, like the example you were giving, we're talking because I was telling earlier, like not talking, but you're talking. But basically what we want the kids to hear, it's not so much what we're seeing than the tone that we're, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for making that distinction. So it doesn't matter as much what we say, right? And sometimes it just means you sit next to them. You know, let's say they get, they're sitting on the floor, angry against a wall. Just going to sit here with you. I'll be quiet. That might be better with 14s. 14s, absolutely. Or 14s even just saying like, hey, I see you're really having a hard time. Do you want to be alone? Do you want me to sit here quietly? Right. Just giving them that agency too.

And you're seeing them. Hey, I know you're upset. Let's figure out on helping you right now. Another thing is taking a bath or a shower. Yeah. Yeah. That was one of mine was like, was so helpful. She was out of control and I would put her all dressed in a bathtub and she would calm down instantly. To this day, I still send myself to shower when I'm upset. Cause that's what effectively my mom did with all of us. And that's, you know, like, oh, why don't you go shower? Why don't you go shower? Why don't you go shower? We know what you're doing.

We were pysi- Everyone was super clean. Oh yeah. It's just, and now I realize that I'm just in a funk and I can't, you know, I call it like a fussy baby when I feel like everything's fine, but I'm just uncomfortable. I'm just in a bad mood and I can't figure out what I need. I'm just going to go shower. That's interesting. And that your senses just kind of calm down. And as a parent, you can use that too, right? When you need your own space, if you know, ideally you're like, you know what, I'm going to go shower and then we'll deal with this. Whatever's going on.

And then the other one we know. It's really sensory also, like water and the sound even, and the warmth and all of it, it can be very calming. Yeah. And that's exactly the next one I was going to say. So senses are really grounding. If you can focus on, there's something called the five, four, three, two or techniques. So when you go and you ask kids and grownups, okay, let's see five things. What five things can you see in your environment? You know, and they, and I like to choose a color usually because it keeps kids focused. So they're very clear. What five blue things can you see?

And they'll go around. What four things can you hear? What three things can you smell? What two things can you taste? Or can you touch and then one thing can you taste? And that immediately brings you to the present and it regulates you. Now that's what you might want to do when they're not fully flipped yet. That's what I was about to ask. Like, can you really do that if a child is completely melting down?

I don't think so. When they're completely melting down at that point, you're triaging and sometimes you just have to ride the wave, right? And just let them cry it out. But you could say, Hey, sometimes I just need to cry it out. Do you want me to stay here with you while you calm down? While you kind of get it out? Or do you want some alone time? I can bring a glass of water. Drinking water is also really, really helpful to bring. Not always, but if they want some water, that's great. Not always possible, but when it is. Exactly. Don't shove it down there.

But yes, it's very helpful to drink water. That could be dangerous for sure. Yes. And then the other one is humor. Humor is really helpful. I'm not laughing at them ever, right? But laughing with them, because then at one point you might just have a moment where you can just step up. What? You could say, Oh my goodness, all this and we were fighting over dog poop.

Who picked up that? And then you could just maybe make a little, who knew? Our Chihuahua has so much power. This is powerful whatever it is. Jokes for younger kids are so funny. But something like just that moment of connection and humor together. And again, it's not saying, Hey, everything that happens is okay. No, it's not. And we will address that, but it's, we're still connected and we're regulating right now together. Yeah. And it's pointless anyway to try to address things when they're in a dead state. They won't listen. They won't remember. They're not going to learn anything and things will happen again. So it's just getting them back to the regulating. And I like the humor and I'm circling back to what you said. Like it really depends on your kids. And already I can tell you two out of three work.

The third would never work in my house. Like it's not a tool I would use with one of my three kids that it would never help. It would make things worse most likely. Exactly. Right. And that's why I could never tell you exactly what to do because I don't know. And I, like, it's one of the big things I try to like enforce basically to parents is like, you know, best. And I'm most often like, there's so many professionals and so many Instagram accounts and they tell people what they should be doing. And like at some point, parents just don't know anymore. So it's like coming back totally. So coming back to yourself, coming back to your kids, that's where you're going to find it. And you're going to be able to find the right solution. And so it's getting inspired by all those ideas and saying like, oh, this can work in my house, but this is not going to work. But also sometimes trying things out that you think might not work could work. Yeah, exactly. And then you try it. That's why I think it's a scientist. You know, when I work with families, with parents, like you try this and report back, let's figure it out.

Like what worked, when did it work? Why do you think it didn't work? Okay. Well, can we tweak and then let's do it again. And then I tell kids, hey, worry, you know, you didn't, when you were born, you didn't come with instructions. So your parents are actually figuring it out too. We're all figuring it out together. And so we're going to help your parents figure out some things. So you help me tell your parents too. Like, well, can we, you know, when we figure out something that works, let's tell them or something that doesn't work. And we can tell them to stop doing this, right?

Stop being trying to be funny when I'm upset. That makes me more angry. Okay. Right. Yeah. Now I know. Like I use detective, so it's basically the same principle. Exactly. I think that's why it's really important though for me. And I think that's part of what the Instagram, a lot of the Instagram accounts are missing is parents need to do some deep work themselves and doesn't necessarily have to be therapy. Although I'm biased, I'm a psychologist. I've been in therapy forever myself. I love it. I'm also from Argentina where we have the highest therapists per capita ratio. Oh yeah. Everyone's in therapy. Even have a town, like an area of the city called V.F.

Royd. Because like it's, there's so many therapists. And so it's very different. The real name of the place or it's just like- It's just informally called because it's not about, you know, do you see as a college is about who do you see. But that's still interesting because I think in so many culture is still shame. Like people don't want to tell. Like it's getting better, I think in most places, but in lots of cultures, tell something you just don't do. And in many cultures, it's still not something you talk about, but I think it's changing slowly. But yeah, but everybody is in therapy. Maybe there's another problem, but- Yes, exactly. And they're there before a very long time. That's also not great. But what we see is, so I'm the chief clinical officer at Manatee. And what we're noticing more and more is that kids, a pediatric mental health startup, right? And so what we're noticing more and more is that kids are the ones asking for help. And they're the ones that are telling their parents, Hey, I found this app. I found this company that has therapists.

Can you please check it out? Like that's saying something. So we're seeing the society changing with, usually changes the kids. So there's a switch that is coming slowly, more acceptance of therapy and counseling. And so we started only with kids, providing child therapy. And we realized quickly, Oh no, no, we need to add parent therapy too. Right. And we do think very much involve the parents. That's actually what makes us different because without parents and you just highlight that they're the problem, right?

And I will never, I would never do it to me. A child is not the problem. There might be something in the relationship, might be something in the family that we can tweak and support, but it's not that the child is bad. And so it's more about investigating like we're talking about before being a detective. And so we added parent therapy. Let's really, in parent coaching and really support parents because we need to really help parents understand how were they raised, right? So I love helping parents understand how were they raised, what worked, what didn't, what comes up for them. What did they expect parenting was going to be like? Order the surprises. In general, it's not something like you don't expect what you got as parents.

It's really, really rare. Yeah. It's like the kinder egg. You don't know what you're going to get. You know, like you just, yeah. Yeah. Well, and unpacking that too, because I think it's really important that we talk about the difficult sides, right? Many, many parents have moments where they regret having kids. I would say most parents, those moments, like in, yeah, all parents have those moments. And question, right? And question like, I love my kid. I don't like my kid right now.

That's okay too, right? Being able to say those things outwardly and not just, oh my God, being a parent is incredible. And this, no, let's be real and talk about these things and what comes up for you and what happens when you realize you're talking just like your mom or your dad and, and what are those? There's, I mean, we don't have time to dig into it too much, but there's something that I love using. It's called the ghosts in the nursery. And then I don't know if you've heard of this, but then there's also, so the ghosts in the nurseries and the angels in the nursery is something that we use a lot with. I mean, your parent, it's comes from child parent psychotherapy, CPP, but I use it with all parents actually. And it's the idea is when, who can you call on from your background that helped you feel safe and seen? What were those moments? And we're really thinking, okay, when I was playing the playground, I saw my grandma look at me and smile with pride. And that moment, I felt she saw what I needed. And when I came, and she had the lemonade, just what I wanted. And she just, those moments of connection, you're like, yeah, special and seeing I responded to when you're struggling, how can you call on her? Right? So that would be the angel in the nursery for you. Mm-hmm. Or for me. This is regulating basically. It's a way to. And aspiring and just really taking it and helping yourself regulate. And then we also have the ghosts in the nursery. Where are those moments? And they come up for us. We might say or do something that feels familiar and not familiar in a good way. And that's okay.

And then how can we recognize it? Oh, yep. I felt this way. Now I'm okay. I see what I'm doing here. And then let's walk it back and take care of yourself, but really recognize. And there aren't too many Instagram accounts about this, right? Cause it's harder, it's deeper work, but it's really. And then it doesn't, the tools don't matter as much if you know that about yourself. Yeah. And it's like not the quick tips, but the quick tips just don't stick. Right. And they might work for one time, two, three times that they won't stick. Like it's like counting down to three for kids to do things. Like it works when they're little, but it's not going to work for long. It's not something you can really rely on. No, and it's scary work, right? Cause then you have to sit, maybe things you push back and you haven't wanted to think about. And so, yeah, it's work. It's not just do A, B, and C, but I've seen it work time and time again, the parents I work it with, because then you have the knowledge and you can handle a lot more, whatever life throws at you. Cause we don't know, right? When they're teenagers, it'll be a different thing than when I'm seeing them, let's say in their elementary school. Definitely. And the scientists or detective work never ends. Cause when we're trying, we found something that works, then they grow up and it doesn't work anymore. We have to find something else. And by the way, parenting doesn't work. I have a parent, no, sorry, parenting doesn't end.

No, it doesn't work. It doesn't end. I have parents that come to me and they're like, well, I only have five more years. No, you don't. Are your kids going to be dead in five years? Cause other ones you still need to be a parent. You're a parent for life. 18 is completely like, this is not, but then I understand like, oh yeah, you're counting down the, the, the years, because this is really hard for you. Super interesting. We talked on so many more things than plan. I love it. Thank you for being here. I have two last thing I will, I love to ask.

So the first is, do you have, but you also already touched on the Dan Siegel one, but is there any other resources that you would like to share with the parents and find out for? Yeah. Google the Dan Siegel on YouTube. They have some great videos and depending on the age of your child, you can show it. I really love that one for the whole family to use. Right. So you can use it with your partner too. Like when you're, there's no point in having, I use it. There's no point. Right. And that's when I might say something in a way I regret or I may say, just, let's just take a break. That's when you bat-mow in laws in general. Oh yeah. Exactly.

Or say you never do this. And like, I'm all, I'm like, well, and then your point exactly. Or people's, it just, this is not the time. So I really liked that one. The other one that is helpful is the boy I, well, that I find helpful is the boy that was raised as a dog. This one, Arthur is, let me, I'm pulling it up right now so I can remember. Yeah. So Bruce Perry, he is, he was one of the first, he was a psychiatrist in the eighties that recognized that what happens in infancy. So zero to three actually does matter before we thought that because kids don't remember, it didn't matter. And so this book is chapters and their stories that really exemplify how what happened in early childhood will just change what we need for our brain to regulate. And so how do you help your brain regulate? And it's not just for people that have more traumatic starts.

It's for anyone. Like what does our brain need really? Why do we like to swing? Right. Kids love to swing. Why do I swing sometimes when I'm upset? Why do we love hammocks so much? Our brain is needing that. There's a lot of things that we need to regulate our brain. When we think of flipping our lid that we can do, a lot of things we can do to just regulate our bodies before we, yeah. And I love that you're new ones because there's lots of like, when kids are three or five, then nothing else we can do basically. Like everything plays before three or something like that. That goes around a lot. And I think that's an interesting nuance. Like that's coming from the fact that before we thought it had no impact. We know it had an impact, but it doesn't mean it's over after that. Oh gosh, no. And neuroplasticity is real. Right. And so our brains are continuously developing. And what we know and research shows is one positive relationship with an adult doesn't have to be your caregiver can have incredibly protective factors for lifelong factors. And so the goal is how can we build as many protective relationships for our kids? And at times we may be that, at times we may not be. And recognize that's okay, but we're right. Let's have this coach. Or an aunt. That's why that extended family and village is so crucial and we're losing that. So making sure that we have those foreign people in our kids' lives too. And in our own life, we need help too. So where can parents find you if they want to work with you or more and more? Yeah. So I, my name is Dr.

Mercedes Oramendia, O-R-O-M-E-N-D-I-A. You can find me. I have my websites. If you Google me, I'm on, I have my Dr. Oramendia, drmercedesoramendia.com. I also have- Then we'll be just show notes for sure. Yeah. And just if you Google me, thankfully, my name is not that common. So just, you will find me. I'm also the chief clinical officer at Manatee where we provide therapy and parent coaching to kids and families. So we're live in six states in the United States. We're continuously growing. So you can also find me at getmanatee.com. And we have a bunch of therapists and parent coaches that are all working. Yeah, a lot. I saw the page. You have lots of people working there. We do. Well, because we're in different states and really our goal is to be able to decrease the wait time. There's such a need for support. Yeah. And parents oftentimes understandably so, but wait until things have escalated a lot. So my goal is let's get people help earlier. Now. Yeah.

So things don't get as bad before they start getting good. For sure. For sure. Thank you. So all the links will be in the show notes. I'll Google for people. You're perfect. I also have an Instagram. So Dr. Mercedes Oramendia will find me on Instagram. So just, yeah, anything wherever you want to try to find me. You're there. Excellent.

So everything will be findable easily. Thank you so much for being here today. It was really nice talking to you. Wow. This was so much fun. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And I love the questions. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad you joined me today and took that time out of your intense life to focus on finding a new way to parent that works for you and your kids. To get the episodes as soon as they drop, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and please left a rating and review so other parents can find it too. Also check out all the free resources on my website at familymoments.ca so you can take action on what's the most important for you right now. And take a deep breath. Keep going. We're all in this together.