031- Avoiding Conflict & Power Struggles with Our Emotionally Intense Kids with Afsaneh Moradian
Parenting the Intensity ·
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Transcript
SPEAKER_00
00:00:00
welcome to the podcast. today we're talking about how to avoid conflict and power struggle with our emotionally intense kids. I'm sure this will resonate to a lot of you. to do so we're receiving a guest, Afsaneh Mouradian. she's an homeschooling coach and author of a picture book for kids that has been sold in 10 ,000 copies internationally and is in many many classrooms. As a homeschooling coach she guides adults by giving them the language to communicate effectively with their children, empowering them to create learning spaces that are safe and inclusive so children can thrive. She's a doctoral candidate in education and has a master's in education. As an educator and curriculum writers for over 20 years. She has worked with hundreds of students from preschool to graduate level. She also has led various teacher training workshops and has appeared in many many places and is the host of the Diverse Homeschooling Summit. She enjoys homeschooling her unique child and drinking iced matcha lattes. Let's dive in!
SPEAKER_00
00:01:26
Welcome to Parenting the Intensity, where we'll talk all about how we can drop the general parenting advice that doesn't work with our emotionally intense kids anyway, and let go of the unrealistic expectations society puts on us as parents. Together, we'll find solutions and ideas that work for you and your kids. Chances are, deep down, you know what you need. But you need a little encouragement to keep going on harder days, and permission to do things differently, and help you fully trust that you already are a wonderful parent to your exceptional but challenging kids. Do you read all the things, listen to all the things, take all the courses, and you know a lot of things about parenting, but you struggle to actually apply them in your real life? Then you're in luck. I just started the Parenting the Intensity community, which is a monthly group support for parents of emotionally intense kids. And the goal is exactly that, to take all the information you learn from the podcast and from all the other sources and adapt them so that it works for your child and your family, your reality. Because things can work but not always the same way for everybody. So the same thing might need to be adapted to work for you and
SPEAKER_00
00:02:54
sometimes it's hard to sort through everything to choose the right things so that you can really enjoy your life and your kids not always being afraid of the next outburst. You can join by clicking on the link in the show notes or on the website. So welcome Asane over on the podcast. I'm really glad to have you here because we'll talk about things that I'm asked a lot about. So I'm really glad to have you over.
SPEAKER_01
00:03:29
Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00
00:03:33
So first, can you start by telling a little about yourself and why you do what you do? Sure.
SPEAKER_01
00:03:41
My name is Afsaneh Muradian. I'm the founder of MLC Homeschool Coaching, and I'm a children's author. And I got into both homeschooling, homeschool coaching, well, all three, and being a children's author because of my child. I have a very unique child who needed all sorts of things that they couldn't get from preschool, that they couldn't find in the picture books that we had available and I've just basically, motherhood for me has really been about creating spaces and media and learning experiences and just trying to figure out how to give my own child really what they need, and, you know, how to help them thrive in their life. So that sort of altered the course of what I was doing. I mean, I bet I am a longtime educator, but certainly did not have a plan to be a picture book author and a homeschooling coach.
SPEAKER_00
00:04:40
Yeah, I think that's pretty rare that we start our life as a year old dreaming dad. So yeah, the most of what we're we plan on talking about, and we often branch out, but is how to avoid the power struggle with our emotionally intense kids. And I think that's a problem that all parents run into. But when you have an emotionally emotionally intense children. I have some problem speaking today. When you have emotionally intense kids it's even worse and it's like all the time and it's very hard to avoid so I'm really glad that you're here to help us with that today. So what will you do? I think we all start any discussion, and we ask something to our child and really often it will spiral really fast. How could we avoid that? So
SPEAKER_01
00:05:45
there's, there's two parts of it, right? One is the communication piece of, you when your child says no, how do you respond? But if I just start with like the script and the words you can say, I think that kind of misses it a little bit because I think the real starting point is, how are you feeling? Are you tired? Are you hungry? Do have your needs met during the day? Are you set up to be able to calmly enter this kind of tough conversation with your child? Because I think it's really, I think it's really asking for too much. If you know, we are tired, we're hungry, we are so frustrated, we, you know, all of that is going on. So you know, that's a really basic thing with kids, too. If someone is hungry, or really tired, it's really hard to be your best. So I think, you know, you can always start with with that, How are you feeling? And then the other thing that you really need to be very aware of is how do you feel and what do you think when your child says no? Because at this point,
SPEAKER_01
00:06:58
if you're dealing with power struggles a lot, you absolutely have a narrative going on. My child doesn't respect me. My child doesn't listen to me. My child is trying to manipulate me. My child is testing me. me. My child is testing my boundaries or testing the limits. So there's definitely something that you think when your child says no, and then you're going to respond based on what you think about what they're saying. And that is a really important thing to be aware of because it's like we write these narratives, right? And we do this in all of our relationships. So, you know, my husband went through a really tough time with our child. My child is very difficult. If you say, please get your shoes on, that's not happening. Get your shoes on, it's not happening. Like my kid is not, like I see some parents say, go get your shoes on and the kids go get their shoes on. It's like, how?
SPEAKER_00
00:07:58
How is that
SPEAKER_00
00:07:59
possible? I know. And I just, I want to pose there because I think that's the experience of so many listeners. Like, yes, some kids do that on the first ask, but not ours. let's be honest, like most of them don't do that. And for many reasons, like different children might have different reasons not to comply when we ask something, but this is the normal experience of I think everybody listening right now. Right,
SPEAKER_01
00:08:27
right. So then and then how do you feel? How does that make you feel? So that's really important. So, you know, when my child was younger, and my husband wasn't so used to dealing with a very intense, independent -thinking child, and, you know, go get your shoes on. No,
SPEAKER_00
00:08:43
or later.
SPEAKER_01
00:08:45
Yeah, yeah, later, right? And then it like doesn't happen until there's a big power struggle going on. And he would just feel so rejected. And he would say, you know, they don't want me. They don't want me to be their parent. They don't want to listen to me. They don't want me. So whenever my child didn't comply, he felt rejected and then he had this whole narrative, this whole story written in his head about how that his child was rejecting him and then he would just feel bad about himself.
SPEAKER_01
00:09:20
What's really going on though, this is why it's so important to become aware of how you're thinking because the real story is so different. What your child is experiencing has nothing to do with you. No. Children the centers of their own universes. They are not thinking about you. They are thinking about the thing that they need to do before they're in a space to put their shoes on. So you say, put your shoes on because you know that it's the time. Now is the time to leave. But for them, oh, but they really just need to finish building that Lego house or they you know, need to find the socks that they want to wear today, or the shoes that they want, because the ones that you chose are a little bit or, yeah, like, they have very good reasons for
SPEAKER_01
00:10:08
not being ready yet. So if you if you just, you know, have your feelings about it, and your narrative about it, and you sit in that, and then they do that. And all it does is like, is poke your emotions, right? Like you're already not feeling great about the situation and then they do that and then that's it. Oh my God, again, again, they're testing the limits. Again, they're not
SPEAKER_00
00:10:34
listening, right? Those feeling that we have, I think they're coming a lot from parenting culture. Like that's what we hear all the time. Your child's not listening is testing your limit. Your child's not listening is manipulative. and like things like that. And the thing that we hear all the time. We that on social media, like all over social media and people around us are telling us that, parent training are telling us that, it's a message that is so ingrained in ourselves from that parenting culture that it becomes our inner dialogue basically.
SPEAKER_01
00:11:15
Yeah, it's very us versus them and it's very like we're the authority and they have to do what we say, and if they're not, then there's a problem. Kids don't really appreciate that. You didn't appreciate that when you were a kid. I didn't. Nobody wants to be yelled at. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to do the yelling. None of it feels good.
SPEAKER_01
00:11:37
If you first really figure out what's going on with you, like I said, are you really tired? If you're really tired, you're going to have a very short fuse. And it's okay, it's okay because then you can always apologize or you can say, you know what? I'm really tired right now. I just need you to get your shoes on. But I have to tell you, if you have a neurodivergent child, it doesn't matter what you need. They're not going to be able to do what you're asking them to do until they are able to. And so the path of least resistance, the fastest way, like people don't believe me, the fastest way to get out of the house is to ask, if they say, oh, not yet or not now, say, how can I help you? Why not? Actually, finding out what's going on with them, maybe the shoelace has a knot in it and they can't undo it. And so there's going to be a whole power struggle, but they can't take the knot out of the shoelace to do it, which it just gets very upsetting for everybody. So finding out what is stopping them from being able to do what you're asking and then seeing if you can help or what you can do to support them getting through that to get their shoes on and get out of the house is so much faster than a power struggle. It's just it's so much faster. It does
SPEAKER_00
00:12:55
feel better. It takes
SPEAKER_01
00:12:59
a lot of patience. It takes a lot of patience to
SPEAKER_01
00:13:04
It takes a lot of patience to say, okay, I'm feeling the way that I'm feeling, but that has nothing to do with what my child is feeling. My child is having their own experience. We know this. People talk about, if you think about if you have a conflict with your partner or with a best friend, everyone has experienced that conversation completely differently. That's what's going on when there's a power struggle. Your child is having their own experience, their own stuff. So, can you imagine, you know, there's a whole power circle going on. From the kid's point of view, like, I had a knot in my shoelace and I couldn't take it out. And, you know, my mom just started yelling at me to get my shoes on and I couldn't do it. It's like, what's the kid supposed to do? So, you know, we're not bad people.
SPEAKER_01
00:13:53
Like I said, it really starts with like, how are you feeling? Because if you're tired, if you're overwhelmed, if you're stressed, if you're frustrated in general. And then your child's, you know, them not complying is more than you're able to handle. And I've absolutely had those moments where it's like, I don't, I don't have the capacity to deal with whatever needs to happen for me to help my kid get their shoes on. And that's the those days where it's like, you know what, we have to leave. You can you know, I'll put your shoes in the car, you can get them on later, you
SPEAKER_00
00:14:28
know, like letting go or
SPEAKER_01
00:14:30
even I've said, you know, yeah, I've even said, like, if you really don't want to wear shoes, do you want to like go out in the world and experience why humans invented shoes to protect
SPEAKER_01
00:14:38
their feet? Like, do you want to have that experience yourself? Because if you need to, that's okay with me, you know, so but usually there's something else going on something that they need to finish or they need to do first or you know, so it's, it goes a lot faster, It's a lot easier to just kind of have a give a show of respect like oh, why not? Well, we need to go You know, it always helps if you're not late. Yes Try to get ready to leave, you know, maybe 15 minutes early So maybe you're five minutes late, you know, like giving that extra time and it's just really hard. We're not robots. Our kids aren't robots It's really hard but if you can kind of remember that they're having their own experience to and try to find out what's going on with them, then you don't need to get into the power struggles and things can go a lot faster,
SPEAKER_00
00:15:31
a lot easier. Make world of difference when you are taking the time, but that means you need to be able to take the time. That's the hard part, I think. Right, right. Because often we don't, there's other things coming up that will take our time. And I can say like with three kids,
SPEAKER_00
00:15:53
there's always something going on. And when one's ready, the other one's not ready. And then you're waiting for one, and then the other one started something else while you were waiting. So always something going on.
SPEAKER_01
00:16:04
But that moment when you walk to the car and you realize no one's behind you. And
SPEAKER_00
00:16:11
you're like, okay, what happened? Where did I lose them all?
SPEAKER_00
00:16:15
We were all in the entryway a second ago.
SPEAKER_01
00:16:19
And just, you know, and then you pass. So I always say, like, I want to be the last one going down the street. You know, I want to be the last one headed to the car, like, you know, because it's at those moments, but they're not, you know, our kids are not doing anything against us. They honestly are not thinking about us at all, which becomes a problem. It's like, I'm so tired. Could you just think about me right now? Like, I'm sick. Could you just help me out? But they just Their kids, developmentally, they don't think about us. It's not their job. They are thinking about like, oh, I need my notebook. Oh, where's that eraser that I haven't seen in three years that I really want to have now for the car ride.
SPEAKER_01
00:17:00
You like that's what's going on in their heads, right? So it just, if you have that information, it's easier for you to become a little, you know, I'm not saying impatient, because it's annoying. You're trying to leave and they need to find an eraser that they haven't used or cared about, right? But at least you know they're looking for an eraser. And if you know where it is and you can get it, then they can get in the car. So that's really what are the obstacles. If you remove the obstacles, then they can do what you're asking. So that's another way of looking at it rather than like an us versus them. And neurodivergent kids do not respond well to arbitrary orders.
SPEAKER_00
00:17:45
You know, if
SPEAKER_01
00:17:45
it seems arbitrary, then it's like you're, you're just deciding they have to do something. There's no meaning, there's no reason, there's no real purpose. And it's, it's going to be very difficult for them to do it. So
SPEAKER_00
00:17:59
mean, we are very
SPEAKER_01
00:18:00
tired as adults.
SPEAKER_00
00:18:01
Yeah. And I think it's interesting, because oftentimes what doesn't work at all for of neurodivergent kids can work for neurotypical kids, but what works for neurodivergent kids also works with neurotypical kids. Like it's just that they need it more and it's just a no choice
SPEAKER_00
00:18:20
when you have a neurodivergent child. But when everything that you use can also work for neurotypical, it's just that they're more compliant in general. And also there's other things that are not necessarily neurodivergent that can also impact the kids in the same way. Like trauma, for example, will impact the kids in a similar way than neurodivergence or anxiety will also impact them in the same way. So there's a lot of things that might, like everything that you suggested applies to so many children that they be neurodivergent or not, just being more intense, makes a lot of those kids need a different approach. And I think using that as exploring and I often say play detective found what's going on instead of just going forward. If you find what's going on, you're gonna and that's a very great example and very great way and very practical way to do it in the day to day when you have a power struggle. And also, I really love what you said about your own energy and your own like,
SPEAKER_00
00:19:28
Can you do it? And if you cannot do it, just let go of it. Don't even start the struggle.
SPEAKER_01
00:19:35
Right because a power struggle really it's about it's about power and our kids, you know I I work with a lot of adults who say like it's not fair. My kid has all the power But their children they actually don't have any power. You have all of the power as the adult You can't get them to do something that they don't want to do, but that doesn't actually give them power because you can take away their screen. You can take away all of their fun. They're not empowered being yelled at by their parent or if it gets a little physical, right? If you lose control and it gets physical. That's not empowering to them. That's actually the opposite. it. So it's really tough to remember in those moments because our kids, they really dig their heels in. They say no and they mean it. And then are you going to get them to comply with some kind of force, be it your words or threatening to take away their phone or whatever, or even physical force or not. The essence of a power struggle, it's that, it's force, which is the opposite of open communication. What's going on with you? Why not? Why can't you? Like I said, it really matters how you're set up to go into those
SPEAKER_01
00:21:03
situations, because it is a lot more work to stay calm. It saying hundreds, if not thousands of words. We're going to do this today, and here's why, and here's what you're going to need to do. You have to explain everything. You to give the reason. It's a lot more work, but it feels a lot better, and it means a lot for the connection that you have with them because it's like getting your child to do something begrudgingly out of fear or out of sadness or out of, you know, not wanting to lose something is very different than doing it because they know that this is something they need to do.
SPEAKER_00
00:21:47
Those are those are very different. And because to do it at some point, even if it's not now, because now they have something else to do, but they do want, and most children want to please us, but don't necessarily want to do it right now, when on our time schedule,
SPEAKER_00
00:22:03
basically.
SPEAKER_01
00:22:05
Right,
SPEAKER_01
00:22:05
exactly. Exactly. So that's, that's really what it what it comes down to. And then, you know, there's like longer term implications, right? Like, do we brush our teeth? Because our parents yelled at us to brush our teeth? Do we brush our teeth? Because we don't want cavities? You
SPEAKER_00
00:22:20
know,
SPEAKER_01
00:22:20
I turn the the off automatically because I got yelled at. That was something that made my mom so upset if the lights were left on. So like, almost like a trauma response, like turn the light off. But like, wouldn't it be better if I turn the lights off to save energy because electricity bill, you know? So, I mean, maybe for some adults it doesn't matter as long as the lights are turned off, right? But I think it does matter because these turn into life skills and how we approach taking care ourselves as adults.
SPEAKER_00
00:22:51
And it
SPEAKER_01
00:22:52
really needs to be out of self love and out of the knowledge of why and how, rather than, you know, that sort of fear that gets left
SPEAKER_00
00:23:01
over, you know, ingrained in us. Doing we need to do it. It's the same as like, does people follow the speed limit on the road because they're afraid of police or because it's dangerous? If you do it because of the police, you're always going to be dangerous in the world. If you do it because you know it's not safe, then you're going to respect the limits, be it a police officer or not. That's basically the same thing, but
SPEAKER_00
00:23:27
apply to parenthood. Like when the day when your children are not like when I know I had two teens, at some point, like I cannot make sure they brush their teeth and wash their hands when they go to the bathroom each time they do. So they haven't integrated that as a life skill for themselves, I cannot control it to some extent. We lose that control completely on their children at some point, for sure. And do you have any, like, suggestion for parents to stay regulated and stay calm when it's very hard to do so?
SPEAKER_01
00:24:02
Well, I do. I do think it matters to look at, you know,
SPEAKER_01
00:24:05
how you're feeling and how you're set, how you're setting yourself up, which somewhat is in your control and somewhat not. And sometimes there's structural changes that need to be made, adjustments to bedtimes, or, you know, making sure you get some quiet time to recharge, or really looking at what is missing that you need. I think staying calm really helps when you remind yourself over and over and over again, this is not about you. All of the feelings, the emotions that come into your head, you have to really push them aside and be able to just focus on, this is a child in distress. This is a child going into crisis. This is a child that has something real happening with them. And it's really, that I think is the hardest part, that you have to really remind yourself of that and stay very focused on them, not you, to find out what they need
SPEAKER_01
00:24:58
and be able to, even in the midst of a conflict, to be able to just give them a hug,
SPEAKER_00
00:25:05
to
SPEAKER_01
00:25:05
just really We see this child is upset right now. This child is not okay right now. And you as an adult, you're okay. You're okay. You've made it this far. You have a family. You have your life. You're okay. This kid is not okay. This is a child.
SPEAKER_01
00:25:20
This child, as angry as you are with them and as justified as you are to be angry, they need a hug. They need love. They need your support. You're their parent. You're the most important in their life. So I think if you really just can kind of, you know, understand how you're feeling, those are just feelings. Those are just thoughts. It's not necessarily the real situation happening and just focus on them. And you know, I mean, my husband has to take a lot of deep breaths. It is very hard for him to be in those situations and stay calm. It's very hard.
SPEAKER_01
00:25:58
So, you know, maybe you need to take deep breaths. Maybe you need to walk away for a minute and say, you know what? Like, I don't think it's good for us to have this conversation. Let's, I'm
SPEAKER_00
00:26:11
going to come back.
SPEAKER_01
00:26:12
Yeah. Like, why don't you do that? I'm going to go to my room. I'm to, you know, give yourself a timeout. Your kid will get the biggest kick out of it.
SPEAKER_01
00:26:19
You know what? I am not, I am not able to do this right now. I'm going to put myself in timeout and I will see you in, you know, three minutes, you know? And maybe you need to call a friend. maybe you need to, you know, send me a message, maybe you need to just, you know, listen to some music or just, you know, whatever
SPEAKER_00
00:26:36
you whatever works for you. Yeah, anything that helps ourselves calm down for for that moment. It can be like, yeah, anything that works. That's important. That's the important part.
SPEAKER_01
00:26:48
So unfortunately, our intense kids didn't come from, you know, they didn't, they didn't come from the air, right? We probably are intense, too. So we like we are adding to the intensity of the situation, whether or not we know we are whether or not we want to, we are making it you
SPEAKER_01
00:27:06
know, you can't have a power struggle without another person.
SPEAKER_00
00:27:09
No, it's not if one person
SPEAKER_01
00:27:10
refuses to engage in the power struggle, there's no power struggle.
SPEAKER_00
00:27:14
Definitely. So and I can definitely vouch for the fact that I add lots of power struggle, especially with my older one for four years. And that the power struggle didn't stop because he grew up the power struggle stopped because I changed the way I was dealing with this virus power struggle. And then I stopped engaging in them. And they disappeared. Right,
SPEAKER_01
00:27:38
right. And so there's like, there's always a need, you know, sometimes kids will will poke us to get that kind of reaction, because maybe they need attention. Maybe they they haven't spent that much time with us today. Maybe, you know, when I need to work, my child becomes the neediest human being possible. I
SPEAKER_00
00:27:56
it's
SPEAKER_01
00:27:57
unbearable. It's like, I like
SPEAKER_00
00:27:59
phone calls minutes to write an email. Yes. That's where
SPEAKER_01
00:28:05
it's like, you know,
SPEAKER_00
00:28:06
yeah, when we're on the phone, kids suddenly needs everything in the world right now.
SPEAKER_01
00:28:14
That's where it's like, okay, what's the bigger picture going on? What does the rest of the day look like? What is the need? What kind of conversation? It seems so intense and unbearable at times, but really words are so powerful and you really can use communication to change the dynamic completely and change the connection also. It's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_01
00:28:41
It's just, it's hard. It's hard to know what to say and how to say it and all of that. And that's why, yeah, that's why there are coaches.
SPEAKER_00
00:28:47
They're
SPEAKER_01
00:28:48
professionals to help you. Right.
SPEAKER_00
00:28:52
And speaking of which you do homeschool coaching. And I think that when we have emotionally intense kids or kids with special needs of any sorts, and probably even more real, like now that after the pandemic where everybody basically experienced homeschooling to some extent, it became an option for more people and sometimes the decision to homeschool is very hard to take. And so if someone listening is on the fence and wondering if homeschooling is the right choice, Why? What would you say are the positive or negative aspects of homeschooling emotionally intense kids? Yeah,
SPEAKER_01
00:29:36
so first I want to say I am not a homeschooling.
SPEAKER_00
00:29:41
I
SPEAKER_01
00:29:42
don't think it's for everyone. So if your child is doing well at school, leave them in school. You don't have to homeschool because I know it seems very exciting and everyone's doing it. But really, Basically, if your kid's good at school, it's fine,
SPEAKER_00
00:29:57
okay?
SPEAKER_01
00:29:58
So that's the first thing I want to say. If school is not working for them and you have the ability, the time, if you work from home or if you can be home, if you have the ability to do it, homeschooling is this incredible opportunity where it's not schooling at home. You're not reproducing the classroom at home. I think that's a very common misconception.
SPEAKER_01
00:30:23
It is this incredible opportunity to create a customized learning experience that takes into account your child's anxieties, learning needs, passions, interests, all of that to create a completely unique learning experience where they can really learn, really love all those skills that were taught at school. people, they can actually love doing that stuff, not, you know, sit down and do math problems. Here's a math worksheet.
SPEAKER_00
00:30:57
Some kids
SPEAKER_01
00:30:58
like math worksheets. For some kids, it's torture, right? So really figuring out what the best experience is for them, you have the ability to create the type of educational experience that costs like $60 ,000 a year at the top private schools in New York City.
SPEAKER_01
00:31:14
Like, you have this ability to give this incredibly intellectually challenging, expressive, creative, critical thinking, independent thinking, learning experience that is really hard to get in a mainstream school these days. And it's the kind of thing that leads to so many opportunities and possibilities for the future. So, I think that that is really the beauty and the amazing aspect of homeschooling. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of families don't get to experience that because they, you know, say, oh, okay, I'll just buy that curriculum and that's what we do.
SPEAKER_00
00:31:54
You know,
SPEAKER_01
00:31:54
it's still divided into different subjects and it's like, you know, school at home.
SPEAKER_01
00:31:59
And if that works, that's fantastic. it. And when it doesn't work, people come to me, because they need this unique experience that's really as unique as their child.
SPEAKER_00
00:32:09
And
SPEAKER_01
00:32:09
yes, and that really is like so different than what we had at school. But absolutely possible. There's so many different approaches to education. And there's just really, you know, just endless fantastic opportunities.
SPEAKER_00
00:32:24
Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes that part can definitely be overwhelming too, because there's so many opportunities, so many possibilities to approach on schooling. But I also think it's important to remember that some of our kids are just they don't feel good at all. And I'm sure that will resonate with many listeners. I have some specific people in mind, like
SPEAKER_00
00:32:48
they add some so difficult experiences in school and some years works well, because some teachers are wonderful and some years, it's not working at all. And think having also the the option to own school, if it's something that's doable, for the families, it's also freeing, to some extent, because you don't feel as trapped in the school system. And you don't feel as trapped and your child doesn't feel as trapped. And sometimes just, it gives you the opportunity to like, okay, I'm try. And if it doesn't work, I have an exit strategy. If it's not working for our children in school, we're not trapped. Because sometimes it feels so powerless to say, it's not working in school and I cannot do anything. That feeling is really hard. And so having that option to help school and thinking, if my children cannot do well in school, it's not the end of the world. there's another option.
SPEAKER_00
00:33:50
Oh,
SPEAKER_01
00:33:50
right. Absolutely. It's really a quality of life issue also. So if your kids are in school, and maybe they don't complain about being in school, but then when they're home, it's endless fights over homework. It's endless battles about organization and getting calls home from the teacher that they don't turn their work in, and they don't have all these materials for the projects. It's like, how is it affecting your relationship with your child also? That was the deciding factor for me about homeschooling. My kid was a model student, but being in an academic preschool took everything out of them to follow directions and do what was asked so that the second we got home, it was, I don't want to be told what to do at all in any way. And it was the worst. It was just the, really the, you know, I got the worst of my kid. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
00:34:48
And I,
SPEAKER_01
00:34:49
you know, it's like, what relationship were we going to have if I was going to spend my whole afternoon saying, you know, okay, don't hang from the chandelier. It was like, just absolutely, I can't take it anymore. You know, my kid really couldn't handle it. And I just said, you know, what am I, what am I going to do? Am I going to let my kid be broken? Are we going to have this horrible relationship every afternoon just to be in school? Or do I care more about our relationship and our connection and
SPEAKER_00
00:35:18
then the learning can flow from that? Yeah. I think that's very important because like, and I have the two models and I think lots
SPEAKER_00
00:35:25
of parents can have like, there's those children who just don't do well in school. They are disruptive. They don't follow direction in school. like the school is always calling you because this child is doing something. And there's also those kids that are doing well at school. And if you ask the school, they will tell you that child does well, they have average grades and they're following direction. But if they're completely losing it when they go back home, it's because most of the time school is just too much. And they're using all of that energy that they have to keep it together at school. And when they come back home, they just melt into a puddle and they just are not
SPEAKER_00
00:36:06
functioning. And that's also a sign that we might miss because they might not complain about school, they might be okay with school, we don't get called by the school, but then it's not going at all. Like, nothing's going well at home. So we're less prone to think, oh, the school is the problem. When when that happens, you know. But it is it can definitely be the school, even if everything is happening at home, and most likely it's the school, not that something is going bad, but just the school is asking too much of that child.
SPEAKER_01
00:36:40
Sure, or it's just too stimulating. There's too much, there's too many kids, you for anyone with auditory processing, it's just loud. There's a lot going on. There's a
SPEAKER_00
00:36:49
lot of
SPEAKER_01
00:36:50
visual stimulation, there's a lot being thrown at you for anxiety. Do you know what what page you're supposed to be on? Are you going to get called on to read out loud? Yeah, no. I having open communication as much as possible is really important. The more that you can find out what your child is experiencing when it comes to anything, then you can make an empowered decision that you know is going to be better for them and hopefully for you. But homeschooling really is a balance. So think it is, like I said, the beauty of homeschooling is the openness, the flexibility to make it so personalized that becomes amazing. But it also has to work for you. If it's a struggle for you, it's a struggle for your child. If they're struggling with it, what we want to do is we want to remove any anxiety or any emotional complications from learning. We want our kids to learn in safe, comfortable environments so that they learn really beyond their potential, essentially.
SPEAKER_00
00:37:57
That's what
SPEAKER_01
00:37:57
we want from their learning. So what does that mean? It could mean a different classroom. It could mean a different school. It could mean homeschooling. It could mean you need to change the way you're homeschooling. It could mean making structural changes. For teenagers, I don't recommend homeschooling at nine in the morning, let them sleep. They are
SPEAKER_00
00:38:16
growing.
SPEAKER_01
00:38:17
You can do school. It really, to homeschool in that sort of way really is to set aside all of the expectations, everything that you know about schooling, everything that society says is supposed to happen, everything, even what other homeschooling families are doing. I don't really like to say what's going well in our homeschooling life because I know that But for some families, that would seem impossible and make them feel bad. And for other families, they might judge, oh, that's all you're doing. I don't really want to get into that.
SPEAKER_00
00:38:52
So
SPEAKER_01
00:38:53
if it feels good on our end and I see my kid advancing, that's great. If there are power struggles or resistance or they don't feel good doing something, then it's up to the parent to figure out how to change that to make it work better. So I do, I do think homeschooling should absolutely be seen as an option if you can afford to do it.
SPEAKER_01
00:39:15
You know, if you can figure out the logistics of it.
SPEAKER_00
00:39:17
Yeah. Because it's still, it still can be complicated for many families and for many families, it's just not an option at all. But if it is, it can definitely feel like less of a trap than having to stay in school. And I, I think also you touch on like homework. Some families will just forego homework altogether, so they can keep a relationship that is positive with their children, because homework is just too much of a power struggle, or it's too much. And schools will, if you can talk with the teachers, if you can talk with the school, sometimes it's possible to have that as the plan of your children for accommodation. sometimes it's not and it might be a bit more complicated. But it's also like not thinking that everything that you should be doing, you have to do as parents, like when it's school related, can also be helpful, like looking at other options. There's no real proof that, for example, homeworks are absolutely essential in learning. It can come in so many different ways. So you can, And to some extent, apply some principle of homeschooling to the homework and no, not homework or doing homework in an homeschooling approach, which is learning and integrating the same thing, but in another way than doing the sheets that the school sent home, for example. So I think it's interesting to think of it all outside of the box a little bit. Definitely.
SPEAKER_01
00:40:50
And it ties back to what we were talking about before. So really, when your child says no, be it homework or a homeschooling assignment or getting shoes on, you have to trust that they're saying no for a real reason. And then try to figure out what that reason is. So
SPEAKER_00
00:41:08
that
SPEAKER_01
00:41:08
helps you then figure out what they need with their learning. Because the teachers and the administrators, I mean, I was a teacher, I I'm a doctoral candidate in education. I'm a curriculum writer. I know all sorts of things about this. But there is a way that education is approached in a classroom. And that is very different than how education is approached for an individual. Of
SPEAKER_00
00:41:35
course.
SPEAKER_01
00:41:35
And the classroom can't meet the needs of individuals in most cases, right? So they're going to come at it from their perspective of managing 25 to 35 bodies in their classroom, right? Is your child making that easier or harder for them? That's what it comes down to, not really what kind of learning they need. Rather than get into those struggles around homework or whatever, it's really to find out, well, why can't you do this? Why isn't this working? Then to go to the teacher. Teachers are just people and some are going to be flexible and
SPEAKER_01
00:42:11
understanding and some aren't. We can't do anything about that. I think it's really important. You You said not to feel stuck, to know that there are options. I definitely, I felt stuck and trapped as a homeschooling parent, actually,
SPEAKER_00
00:42:26
in
SPEAKER_01
00:42:26
the beginning when it was so tough and I didn't know what to do and I had to figure it out. That's why I became a homeschooling coach. Like, I
SPEAKER_00
00:42:33
don't want
SPEAKER_01
00:42:34
other people to be in this situation. I'd rather help them. So it's not good to feel trapped. As soon as something feels like you're stuck or you're trapped, that should send off alarms that you have to figure out why and then figure out what to do about it. you
SPEAKER_00
00:42:47
know, definitely take action. Yeah, and that applies to everything, be it homeschooling, schoolwork, or power struggle. So I really love, it ties it all together. Yeah. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00
00:43:00
Before we finish up, is there any resource that you love, books or blogs or other people that you know that you wanna share with the community?
SPEAKER_01
00:43:13
Absolutely. So if you do not know about Ross Green and his book, absolutely check out, especially the book, the explosive in the very beginning of the book, there's a list of skills that every human needs to have in order to engage in healthy communication. And it is really important because as adults, I think as most of us as adults, we're probably missing a couple of those skills. Yeah. Some more than others. I read that with my husband. I like, wow, I don't know if he has any of these.
SPEAKER_01
00:43:50
He's not going to hear this podcast, so I can say that. It was like, wow, he really, you know, he missed out when he was a kid on learning a bunch of this stuff.
SPEAKER_00
00:43:59
But it's really helpful. We We don't learn those skills. Like it's not, that's not thought in school.
SPEAKER_01
00:44:06
Right. And so I realized like, oh, in this case, I think he's more of the explosive child than my child is, you know, it was really helpful to read that. And it does it gives it gives you a foundational understanding. But then there's also like, like actual scripts to go through of how to use a different approach
SPEAKER_01
00:44:24
to communication, asking questions, really trying to figure things out rather than just reacting. So very, very good book that I
SPEAKER_00
00:44:33
think
SPEAKER_01
00:44:33
everybody, I it should really be like for all parents to
SPEAKER_00
00:44:36
read this book. But
SPEAKER_01
00:44:38
list of skills is super helpful because in the moment when you are watching, you know, if you kind of watch yourself with your child, you can say, okay, my child hasn't developed this skill yet. I need, it's my job to help them develop these skills, right?
SPEAKER_00
00:44:54
Or
SPEAKER_01
00:44:54
if I can't, then And is there a professional that
SPEAKER_00
00:44:59
I
SPEAKER_01
00:44:59
can bring into our lives who can help my child develop these skills? Or
SPEAKER_00
00:45:03
I
SPEAKER_01
00:45:03
really need to focus on these skills that are harder for me.
SPEAKER_00
00:45:07
Skills
SPEAKER_01
00:45:07
are just, you're not born with them. You have
SPEAKER_00
00:45:11
to
SPEAKER_01
00:45:11
practice them and they have to be developed, which means that we can develop them as adults and our kids will develop them. But there has to be a process put in place to develop and practice those skills. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00
00:45:25
so that you need to know that you need to practice and learn those skills to be able to do so.
SPEAKER_01
00:45:31
Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01
00:45:32
So I highly recommend the explosive child by Ross Green. I think
SPEAKER_00
00:45:36
it's very
SPEAKER_01
00:45:37
helpful.
SPEAKER_00
00:45:38
Definitely a great, a great recommendation. So thank you very much. If parents want to learn more, if they're already homeschooling or they're thinking about homeschooling, I would love some support where they can find you. Sure.
SPEAKER_01
00:45:51
My website is mlccoaching .com and MLC Homeschool Coaching is a Facebook page and meradian .absentee is Instagram and you can send me a DM and I'll read them and I'll reply. And I'm definitely here if you're having any crises, struggles, you know, I deal with the major difficulties with homeschooling. That's when people come to me. So the communication, communication, planning and connection are my, the three things I focus on.
SPEAKER_00
00:46:23
Great, great. So we'll put all the links in the show notes so people can easily reach out to you. So thank you very much for being here today. It was very nice talking to you.
SPEAKER_01
00:46:33
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00
00:46:38
I'm so glad you joined me today and took that time out of your intense life to focus on finding a new way to parents that works for you and your kids. To get the episodes as soon as they drop make sure to subscribe to the podcast and please leave everything in review so other parents can find it too. Also check out all the free resources on my website at familymoments .ca so you can take action on what's the most important for you right now. And take a deep breath, keep going, we're all in this Together.